Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

I don't doubt the Pak-fa has AESA. It's just that everything else just screams, "we aren't advanced or experienced enough to put as much care into LO details as the Yanks yet we think it'll shoot 3 F-22's out of the sky for every T-50 lost anyway for we work for love of the motherland!" type of tripe.

They use a bog standard non-stealthy IRST derived from the older Flankers, The air intake spill bleed doors are placed on the sides so side RCS will suffer dearly. The level of variable geometry on this aircraft like the VG LEVCONs and other Leading edge devices and Radar Apertures ensures that reliable and rugged RAM treatments will be impossible and VG in general can only amplify radar return by itself.

The use of VG inlet compression ramps to "hide" the engine face is dumb as by doing so you are creating huge amounts of cowl drag by placing a solid metal object inclined at a large angle in front of the airflow to redirect it while compressing it. At least the F-22's ramp is fixed and isn't positioned at a ramp angle such that excessive amounts of drag would be made.

Also I seem to remember reading that the first batch of these aircraft delivered to the Russian Air force will be equipped with the current engines the prototype T-50s are using and will be using the same cowling around them as the actual production engines won't be developed in time. Is this true? I don't remember where I read it from.

@sprstdlyscottsmn I pretty much agree. However I think the Pak-Fa might have more VG features than past Flankers such as the LEVCONs and the vertical rudders that can change their cant angle and are apparently all-moving a la the YF-23's vertical stabs.

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sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

yeah, the claims that I hear are like saying the US put APG-77 and F119s into the F-15 and then RAM coated them.

Put APG-82, GE-132 with 2-D TVC, the coatings (and blockers) and PAWS-2+ into the F-15E class, and you've got yourself a ready-to-go, poor-man's game-changer!

wrightwing wrote:

The T-50 should be faster and more manueverable. How much more advanced the avionics are, is anybody's guess. It'll also have a considerably better RCS than a Flanker. It sounds more like a well equipped Typhoon/Rafale class aircraft, with a better RCS.

Why would the T-50 be faster and more maneuverable than the F-22? I don't think even Sukhoi claimed that.

disconnectedradical wrote:

wrightwing wrote:

The T-50 should be faster and more manueverable. How much more advanced the avionics are, is anybody's guess. It'll also have a considerably better RCS than a Flanker. It sounds more like a well equipped Typhoon/Rafale class aircraft, with a better RCS.

Why would the T-50 be faster and more maneuverable than the F-22? I don't think even Sukhoi claimed that.

I think,WW,was,responding to my post comparing the T-50 to the Su-35.

The pak fa fanbois have been saying that the top speed was quoted as m2.0. So may not even be faster than the Su-35. Clean 35 that is.

geogen wrote:

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

yeah, the claims that I hear are like saying the US put APG-77 and F119s into the F-15 and then RAM coated them.

Put APG-82, GE-132 with 2-D TVC, the coatings (and blockers) and PAWS-2+ into the F-15E class, and you've got yourself a ready-to-go, poor-man's game-changer!

There would be nothing "poor-man's" about about the price of an F-15 so equipped. One may as well just restart F-22 production... sans the sleepytime OBOGS.

1st503rdsgt wrote:

geogen wrote:

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

yeah, the claims that I hear are like saying the US put APG-77 and F119s into the F-15 and then RAM coated them.

Put APG-82, GE-132 with 2-D TVC, the coatings (and blockers) and PAWS-2+ into the F-15E class, and you've got yourself a ready-to-go, poor-man's game-changer!

There would be nothing "poor-man's" about about the price of an F-15 so equipped. One may as well just restart F-22 production... sans the sleepytime OBOGS.

And considering the effects of the right-angle walls of the F-15's nodding ramp intakes on radar return, nothing game-changer either. You can't fix that with "coatings."

tacf-x wrote:

The Indian FGFA was delayed too. Isn't it beautiful how the Russian aviation fanbois (and Kopp's) beliefs that the Pak-Fa was going to number in the thousands by the 2020s is falling apart as we speak?

One wonders when the Indians are going to realize that they're being taken for a ride... again. What was the original price-quote on that carrier Russia is unloading on them?

river_otter wrote:

And considering the effects of the right-angle walls of the F-15's nodding ramp intakes on radar return, nothing game-changer either. You can't fix that with "coatings."

Shhh...don't say that out loud. Boeing might hear that and you'll hurt their feelings.

munny wrote:

The pak fa fanbois have been saying that the top speed was quoted as m2.0. So may not even be faster than the Su-35. Clean 35 that is.

That's...certainly slower than an F-22, as well as an F-4.

You knew this was coming. Man, how'd you like to be Putin right now? What was his quote on IOC, 2013? LOL..

He's a pilot, you know. If you didn't know, he'll gladly remind you... Smile

river_otter wrote:

1st503rdsgt wrote:

geogen wrote:

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

yeah, the claims that I hear are like saying the US put APG-77 and F119s into the F-15 and then RAM coated them.

Put APG-82, GE-132 with 2-D TVC, the coatings (and blockers) and PAWS-2+ into the F-15E class, and you've got yourself a ready-to-go, poor-man's game-changer!

There would be nothing "poor-man's" about about the price of an F-15 so equipped. One may as well just restart F-22 production... sans the sleepytime OBOGS.

And considering the effects of the right-angle walls of the F-15's nodding ramp intakes on radar return, nothing game-changer either. You can't fix that with "coatings."

To 1st503rd... ah, very true, such an upgrade would not be a 'poor-mans' jet per se, but such a jet, as was said, would be a 'poor man's' strategic Game-changer jet, for the medium-term at least, if one so required such a high-end platform as part of their overall mix.

And to river-otter...

Fair enough and I'm not actually in the camp claiming the F-15SE-type to be an actual 'stealth fighter'.

Where the F-15E++/F-15SE-lite would compensate for however, and offset against the higher RCS, would be in platform maturity, superior BVR sensor situational awareness and 'ready-to-go' systems integration, eg jamming pods and Recon pods, etc.

mixelflick wrote:

You knew this was coming. Man, how'd you like to be Putin right now? What was his quote on IOC, 2013? LOL..

He's a pilot, you know. If you didn't know, he'll gladly remind you... Smile

Putin: "I, Putin, have flown the future! It is the F-22ski...er, I mean the T-50 PAK FA!"

Reporter: "But since 1st flight in 2010, how many do we have flying now great leader?"

Putin: "Three, but that's besides the point. We have built a technological marvel! The world's air forces will shake at the knees in fear of this fighter! DA! They will! Ha ha ha!"

Here's my prediction:

By the time the T-50 is ready all the rogue states will be incorporated into the global economy. No one will need "Glorious F-22ski to protect from capitalist aggression."

Just the fact that these countries are trying to duplicate the '22 is an example of just how good American technology is! The '22 hasn't even been in combat but these guys are pretty worried, to the extent that the have to have their own versions!!! If they're competing with our 1990 era tech now, how far ahead are we actually in terms of stealth??? Remember.... we haven't stopped R&D!!!!

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

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