New info on LockMart Indian F-16 offer

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LinkF16SimDude

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Unread post16 Jan 2008, 22:24

LockMart is callin' it the "F-16IN"...and claims it'll be a completely new jet tailored specifically to India's requirements. It will not resemble any of the earlier blocks (including the B60), and will supercruise. (!)

Article here.
Why does "monosyllabic" have 5 syllables?
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tmofarrvl

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Unread post17 Jan 2008, 03:35

I came across another article on this same topic:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/F-16 ... 706209.cms

I believe that this one did a better job of downplaying the "supercruise" capabilities of the proposed aircraft. To quote the appropriate segment of this later article:
Although supercruising, or cruising at supersonic speeds, is not being touted as one of the features of the new F-16, pilots flying the latest version say they often supercruise.


A lot of airplanes can "supercruise" - barely - in a clean configuration. Some of us remember that the F-16XL was one of them, and that was decades ago. It doesn't make it meaningful in combat, however, unless they can achieve a true leap in flight speed (say around Mach 1.5 or above), with a useful air-to-air weapons load. There's only one aircraft today that has been document to meet that standard: the F-22 Raptor. The rest is all just hype.

Don't get me wrong. I still believe that the F-16 is far and away the best bang-for-the-buck for India, or any other potential customer. I just don't believe that "supercruise" is a leading reason why.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post20 Jan 2008, 07:42

LinkF16SimDude wrote:LockMart is callin' it the "F-16IN"...and claims it'll be a completely new jet tailored specifically to India's requirements. It will not resemble any of the earlier blocks (including the B60), and will supercruise. (!)

Article here.




Also, of note in the article it clearly states only 5th Generation Types like the F-22 and forthcoming F-35 can supercruise. Now is this the first time LM has publicly admitted the F-35 Lightning can supercruise like its big brother the F-22 Raptor. Sounds like the cat is out of the bag! :wink: Sorry, I didn't mean to get off topic...........major new if true! :roll:
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Unread post23 Jan 2008, 01:28

News report released by India....

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/vi ... fault.aspx


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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 Jan 2008, 03:36

Meathook wrote:News report released by India....

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/vi ... fault.aspx


The Jet Set: Flying on the F16 (use this in the search window if required)



While, I considered the Super Hornet to have the best shot at India's MMRCA Contest. The LM F-16 clearly should have the best off-set deal. Which, in India's case could lead to the F-35 down the road.........Really, a no brainer! 8)
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Unread post31 Jan 2008, 04:01

I didn't realize that the IAF had a twin-engine requirement. :shock: Well, more Supers on the run should mean they may be less expensive for the Aussies! 8) [/b]
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That_Engine_Guy

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Unread post31 Jan 2008, 04:29

Corsair1963 wrote: Also, of note in the article it clearly states only 5th Generation Types like the F-22 and forthcoming F-35 can supercruise. Now is this the first time LM has publicly admitted the F-35 Lightning can supercruise like its big brother the F-22 Raptor. Sounds like the cat is out of the bag! :wink: Sorry, I didn't mean to get off topic...........major new if true! :roll:


Slip of the tongue or was it just a typo? The F135 engine has a much larger by-pass than it's brother F119. As said below, not quite designed for the same supecruise requirements of the Raptor.

http://www.jsf.mil/contact/con_faqs.htm
JFS/F-35 Program Site wrote:How much thrust does the F-35 engine produce?
The JSF will be powered by either a Pratt & Whitney F135 or General Electric F136 engine. Both engines produce in excess of 40,000 pounds of thrust.

Does the F-35 use an afterburner?
Yes, the F135 and F136 engines operate in afterburner.

Does the F-35 supercruise?
No, neither the F135 or F136 engines were designed to supercruise.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post31 Jan 2008, 05:22

That_Engine_Guy wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote: Also, of note in the article it clearly states only 5th Generation Types like the F-22 and forthcoming F-35 can supercruise. Now is this the first time LM has publicly admitted the F-35 Lightning can supercruise like its big brother the F-22 Raptor. Sounds like the cat is out of the bag! :wink: Sorry, I didn't mean to get off topic...........major new if true! :roll:


Slip of the tongue or was it just a typo? The F135 engine has a much larger by-pass than it's brother F119. As said below, not quite designed for the same supecruise requirements of the Raptor.

http://www.jsf.mil/contact/con_faqs.htm
JFS/F-35 Program Site wrote:How much thrust does the F-35 engine produce?
The JSF will be powered by either a Pratt & Whitney F135 or General Electric F136 engine. Both engines produce in excess of 40,000 pounds of thrust.

Does the F-35 use an afterburner?
Yes, the F135 and F136 engines operate in afterburner.

Does the F-35 supercruise?
No, neither the F135 or F136 engines were designed to supercruise.



While, I would doubt the F-35 could super cruise at the speeds of the F-22. I don't think you can back up your claim that the Lightning can not...... :?
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That_Engine_Guy

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Unread post31 Jan 2008, 22:05

Well the definition of supercruise has changed since it was first used back in the late 1980's early 1990's.

Back then it was "supersonic speed without use of afterburner" Many "then" fighters could "supercruise" without external stores at certain altitudes.

The term was redefined after the Raptor to mean "Mach 1.5 speed with combat load" so that congress wouldn't associate "supercruise" with legacy fighter weapon systems such as the Viper.

I didn't say the F-35 couldn't do MACH 1+ without 'burner. I said "not quite designed for the same supercruise requirements of the Raptor" The quotes were from the JSF/F-35's Official Military site.

The F135 engine should have a much lower SFC at MIL compared to the F119, and may make more thrust, but I doubt the speed will be the same at MIL. The F135 is built for a smaller airframe with less fuel and to fly more "low" missions. As such I would imagine the lower SFC was more important than Supercruise. I would imagine the thrust/drag ratio of the F-35 will be higher than the F-22 w/2 F119s. :2c:

Funny they call the Raptor the F/A-22 but still call the Lightening II the F-35?
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rontako

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Unread post29 Feb 2012, 14:41

Though Pakistan is mentioned specifically, we can forget anything advance from the US let alone an AESA radar. The future lies in J-10 and JF-17.

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