Air to Air Combat F-15C Eagle v.s. MiG-29 Fulcrum

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F-4Phantomflier

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Unread post24 Aug 2006, 21:51

Ok, from what I know if these to aircraft came head to head the winner would be decided by the circumstance. If it were one on one F-15 vs MiG-29 the Fulcrum would have the advantage because its 1) more maneuverable 2) The pilot can look at his/her target lock on and shoot. But if it came to be more than 2 Eagles vs a fulcrum, the Fulcrum would be in trouble because it does not have a multi-targeting computer like the F-15C does. So, in different situations both aircraft can win and lose... is this true?
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TC

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Unread post25 Aug 2006, 02:03

Bienvenido Phantom. (even though I can tell just by your screenname that you aren't really an F-4 jock :wink:)

We've covered this one in many other threads, but here goes...again.

The MiG-29 has a shoddy AA record at best...8 kills scored against other MiGs (who knew?), including two friendly fire incidents (one of those being against another Fulcrum), plus one which was scored by a Cuban Fulcrum against a Cessna (in a very Charlie Sierra incident, I will add).

As for the Eagle? 104.5 kills to 0 combat losses, including around 11 kills against Fulcrums.

Superior and more reliable equipment, superior tactics and training, and AWACS all contributed to the Eagle's dominance of the Fulcrum. Now that adversary nations with a good bankroll are turning to the Flanker family, and some certain folks have buried their jets, the Eagle's dominance of the Fulcrum should easily continue.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!
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skrip00

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Unread post25 Aug 2006, 03:15

I think the better question the poster should ask is: how Moldavian (sp?) Mig-29s and Polish Mig-29s fare against other NATO aircraft when supported by AWACS and flying with NATO crews.
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F-4Phantomflier

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Unread post25 Aug 2006, 18:20

TC wrote:Bienvenido Phantom. (even though I can tell just by your screenname that you aren't really an F-4 jock :wink:)


Yeah, I just love the F-4 Phantom it was in and out of service before I was born though... :lol:
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snypa777

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Unread post26 Aug 2006, 17:48

Phantomflier, just peruse any article about the KOSOVO campaign to see what TC and others mean.....Mig-29 V F-15 was no contest... 8)
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F-4Phantomflier

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Unread post26 Aug 2006, 19:05

Yes, I see but the MiG-29 V F-15 1on1 has the upper hand because its A. More Maneuverable B. The pilot can look at his target to lock on
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shocktroop

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Unread post26 Aug 2006, 19:30

Yes, I see but the MiG-29 V F-15 1on1 has the upper hand because its A. More Maneuverable B. The pilot can look at his target to lock on


The F-15 can take out a Fulcrum at 50km+ using an AMRAAM and the MiG won't even know what hit it, therefor it is very unlikley that an Eagle will ever get into a dogfight situation with a Fulcrum.

The Eagle also has off bore sight capability allowing the pilots to lock targets by looking at them. This system is already fitted to IAF Eagles and many US Eagles have this capability aswell- Combine this with a Python 4/5 and the MiG doesn't stand a chance in a close 1 on 1 dogfight either.
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Unread post26 Aug 2006, 21:32

I know an Eagles capabilities can do that and that if they DO get into a dogfight something went terribly wrong. But the MiG is more maneuverable, so it can out turn an Eagle and get on its Six and use its cannon, or get far enough behind it to use a Short Range Air to Air Missile, so it depends on the SITUATION the Eagle, and MiG are in.
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TC

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Unread post28 Aug 2006, 04:48

It's not the situation the aircraft are in that matters, it's the situation that the pilots involved are in that counts. That being said, the Fulcrum, while lighter, is underpowered, compared to the Eagle. The Eagle has the power to extend from a turning engagement in any direction, and distance himself for a shot from a safer range.

I've mentioned this particular dogfight several times on this site, regarding the F-15 flown by Caesar "Rico" Rodriguez, against a Fulcrum in ODS. Rico kept himself at or near the Fulcrum's six during the entire engagement. The Fulcrum driver finally executed a Split S, but was too low to the ground, and went down without Rico needing to take a single shot.

Again, superior equipment, tactics, training and a far superior pilot combined to defeat the Fulcrum...an aircraft that has never proven itself in Air to Air combat, compared to an aircraft that has never been defeated in combat.

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shocktroop

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Unread post30 Aug 2006, 09:32

That being said, the Fulcrum, while lighter, is underpowered, compared to the Eagle.


What about the newer versions of the Fulcrum using more powerful engines?

I've mentioned this particular dogfight several times on this site, regarding the F-15 flown by Caesar "Rico" Rodriguez, against a Fulcrum in ODS. Rico kept himself at or near the Fulcrum's six during the entire engagement. The Fulcrum driver finally executed a Split S, but was too low to the ground, and went down without Rico needing to take a single shot.


There was this incedent on March 26 1999:
After Yugoslav MiG-29 pilot Zoran Radosalvjevic was shot down by an F-16C, 2 more Yugoslav MiG-29s took off from Batajnica and challeged a group of US F-15s. Both MiG-29s were shot down by US Captain Jeff Hwag, but reportedly, Yugoslav MiG-29 pilot Lt. Colonel Slobodan Peric, managed to shoot down an F-15 moments before he crashed.
Photos from one of the wreckages from the flight showed that one of the crashed jets had "ANNUAL INSPECTION C/7" written on it in English. The US military stated no F-15s were lost during the Kosovo campaign, but whether it was a F-15 or not, is not known.
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akruse21

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Unread post30 Aug 2006, 20:25

dude there is no way that the air force would be able to cover up losing a 15. for one thing, about 200 plus people of the maintenance would all know that their jet didnt make it back.
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avon1944

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Unread post14 Oct 2006, 21:01

Anyone who photographs the wreckage of an F-15 after a dogfight, will get rich if they are among the first to get the pictures to AlJezzera, BBC, CNN, etc. The anti-American world has been waiting for this since 1975.

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RoAF

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Unread post14 Oct 2006, 22:35

shocktroop wrote:
There was this incedent on March 26 1999:
After Yugoslav MiG-29 pilot Zoran Radosalvjevic was shot down by an F-16C, 2 more Yugoslav MiG-29s took off from Batajnica and challeged a group of US F-15s. Both MiG-29s were shot down by US Captain Jeff Hwag, but reportedly, Yugoslav MiG-29 pilot Lt. Colonel Slobodan Peric, managed to shoot down an F-15 moments before he crashed.
Photos from one of the wreckages from the flight showed that one of the crashed jets had "ANNUAL INSPECTION C/7" written on it in English.


First of all, the MiG-29 shootdown by the USAF F-16 happened much later, on May 4,1999. Its pilot was Pavlovic (KIA), not Radoslavjevic.
The photos you talk about are in fact stills from some footage, the parts with "annual insp." being the wrecks of the fuel tanks dropped by the Eagles just before they engaged the Fulcrums, on March 26, 1999. This is when Radoslavjevic was KIA, but Peric punched out and survived (was picked up by a Serbian CSAR helo from Bosnia - over which the shootdowns happened - and brought back home). He never claimed anything, he even stated that he didn't had the time to shoot a single missile.
Looks like you spent too much time around Venik's crappy site :lol:
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shocktroop

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Unread post16 Oct 2006, 13:54

Looks like you spent too much time around Venik's crappy site


Nope, I rarely visit Venik's site. I got this quote from Wikipedia- and since wiki is well known for not being accurate, I just wanted to know if anyone can confirm/ has any info about this statement.
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TC

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Unread post06 Nov 2006, 17:33

Yeah, we can confirm it right here on this site. No Viper has been lost in AA. No Eagles either. SAMs and AAA have taken out Vipers, and a couple of Strike Eagles, but the AF hasn't lost an AA engagement since Vietnam.

Akruse has it spot on. Everybody in that Wing's maintenance AND operations would know that a jet didn't make it back, and it wouldn't take long to know why. Plus, it's a small Air Force. It gets in the wind, and news travels fast. If we had lost a bird in AA, trust me, somebody here would know it. Several of us have worked around both the Eagle and the Viper.

Here's another fact: We've never lost an F-15A/B/C or D model in combat. Not by SAMs, not by AAA, and most certainly not by an enemy aircraft. Remember to check your sources folks.
"He counted on America to be passive...He counted wrong." -- President Ronald Reagan
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