F-35 JSF vs Eurofighter Typhoon

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

castlebravo

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 189
  • Joined: 08 Feb 2011, 19:10

Unread post27 Apr 2018, 20:00

More like the lack of stealth is only 10% of the capability gap between the two.
Offline

gc

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 20 May 2015, 02:12

Unread post01 May 2018, 05:01

count_to_10 wrote:Has anyone posted this one?
https://www.defensenews.com/industry/20 ... in-berlin/

“Stealth is only 10 percent of the capability mix,” Eurofighter marketing chief Raffael Klaschke told Defense News on Wednesday. “We’re still better at the other 90 percent,” he argued, referring to the aircraft’s combat capabilities.

:doh:


Straight from the mouth of a major Typhoon operator:
Müllner (Chief of German Air Force): It is undisputed that the EUROFIGHTER as fighter aircraft is the backbone of our air defence. With the successfully completed test campaign in Sweden and the permission granted to use the GBU-48, we have indeed passed an important milestone on the road towards multirole capability, i.e. the EUROFIGHTER as fighter bomber.
The EUROFIGHTER can also be used in the air-to-ground role and has been reported to the NATO Response Force as multirole fighter aircraft and fighter bomber from the beginning of this year. However, this new role of the EUROFIGHTER aircraft also has limits, especially when we think of scenarios with powerful air defence.
Russia has state-of-the-art air defenve missile systems and is stationing and exporting them. It is not without reason that many of our European partners and our allies from across the Atlantic have introduced combat aircraft that make it possible for pilots to enter an airspace that is protected by advanced air defence systems.
The EUROFIGHTER lacks the required low detectability depending on the design of the radio and data transfer systems and, more significantly, on the outer form of the aircraft which cannot be changed.
For us, this means that the EUROFIGHTER as a fighter bomber can only fulfil its tasks convincingly when employed together with or after a successful employment of state-of-the art aircraft that have a sufficiently reduced signature in the entire electromagnetic spectrum. Furthermore, it still needs considerable additional support through an effective use of electronic warfare assets.

The source can be downloaded at
http://www.monch.com/mpg/images/exhibit ... 2-2018.pdf

He might be losing his job due to his views, but he is still advocating having the best kit for his pilots rather than satisfying politicians.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 21014
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post01 May 2018, 05:11

The same PDF has the 'F-35 for Luftwaffe' article - here is the two page Chief German Air Force Interview from same PDF.

http://www.monch.com/mpg/images/exhibit ... 2-2018.pdf (2.7Mb)
Attachments
ChiefGermanAF Interview MT-ILA 2-2018 pp2.pdf
(241.56 KiB) Downloaded 81 times
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

white_lightning35

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 354
  • Joined: 18 Sep 2016, 03:07
  • Location: Home of nuclear submarines, engines, and that's about it.

Unread post02 May 2018, 01:37

gc wrote:Straight from the mouth of a major Typhoon operator:
Müllner (Chief of German Air Force): It is undisputed that the EUROFIGHTER as fighter aircraft is the backbone of our air defence. With the successfully completed test campaign in Sweden and the permission granted to use the GBU-48, we have indeed passed an important milestone on the road towards multirole capability, i.e. the EUROFIGHTER as fighter bomber.
The EUROFIGHTER can also be used in the air-to-ground role and has been reported to the NATO Response Force as multirole fighter aircraft and fighter bomber from the beginning of this year. However, this new role of the EUROFIGHTER aircraft also has limits, especially when we think of scenarios with powerful air defence.
Russia has state-of-the-art air defenve missile systems and is stationing and exporting them. It is not without reason that many of our European partners and our allies from across the Atlantic have introduced combat aircraft that make it possible for pilots to enter an airspace that is protected by advanced air defence systems.
The EUROFIGHTER lacks the required low detectability depending on the design of the radio and data transfer systems and, more significantly, on the outer form of the aircraft which cannot be changed.
For us, this means that the EUROFIGHTER as a fighter bomber can only fulfil its tasks convincingly when employed together with or after a successful employment of state-of-the art aircraft that have a sufficiently reduced signature in the entire electromagnetic spectrum. Furthermore, it still needs considerable additional support through an effective use of electronic warfare assets.

The source can be downloaded at
http://www.monch.com/mpg/images/exhibit ... 2-2018.pdf

He might be losing his job due to his views, but he is still advocating having the best kit for his pilots rather than satisfying politicians.


"It is not without reason that many of our European partners and our allies from across the Atlantic have introduced combat aircraft that make it possible for pilots to enter an airspace that is protected by advanced air defence systems."

Surely he is not talking about the plane-that-should-not-be-named? The plane-that-should-not-be-named which loses to f-16's and IS NO MATCH FOR MIGHTY STRONK RASYA S-3/4/500?

I know, he's talking about the Gripen! Sweden, a European partner, uses it. And, um.. Brazil! Brazil's across the Atlantic! And the Gripen is definitely capable; the video Saab put on YouTube told me it is 6'th Gen.

"The EUROFIGHTER lacks the required low detectability depending on the design of the radio and data transfer systems and, more significantly, on the outer form of the aircraft which cannot be changed."

But, but... muh RAM paint and active cancellation....
Offline

southernphantom

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1041
  • Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 17:18
  • Location: Kentucky

Unread post02 May 2018, 05:40

count_to_10 wrote:Has anyone posted this one?
https://www.defensenews.com/industry/20 ... in-berlin/

“Stealth is only 10 percent of the capability mix,” Eurofighter marketing chief Raffael Klaschke told Defense News on Wednesday. “We’re still better at the other 90 percent,” he argued, referring to the aircraft’s combat capabilities.

:doh:


Bolded section explains it.

I am in awe.

Some days, I wonder if the Russia Stronk Flanker fanboys aren't more grounded in reality than the Eurofighter guys. The platform really only seems to have speed and acceleration over the F-35, which doesn't count for a lot given that it will not see the F-35 until too late. Exercise scenarios notwithstanding.
I'm a mining engineer. How the hell did I wind up here?
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 4417
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 May 2018, 06:32

Honestly, the US and the JSF (F-35) Program. Should just push Germany to hold a Open Fighter Competition for the Tornado Replacement. Then the F-35 will easily win....
Offline

nutshell

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 453
  • Joined: 04 May 2016, 13:37

Unread post02 May 2018, 08:19

hornetfinn wrote:Customers seem to disagree with Eurofighter marketing chief... :P

Like Italy who uses both Eurofighter and F-35:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28191&p=305710&hilit=Preziosa#p305710

For Italy, the Eurofighter mustl be modified to work more effectively with the F-35. The payload evolution of the Eurofighter is significant, and weapons modernization will support both the F-35 and the Eurofighter in providing new tools for air operations.

“There is nothing static in airpower; there is always a fluid dynamic, and the F-35 provides a benchmark for now for air power excellence and for several decades moving ahead we will leverage the decision tools and multi-tasking capabilities of the F-35 as well add capabilities to our Air Forces,” the general said.


Not gonna lie, I giggled a bit at "Italy uses" an "euro fighter" in the same sentence.

Even our 15 yrs old Tyffies are still in pristine conditions =)
Online

pron

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 84
  • Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 19:28

Unread post02 May 2018, 20:31

Bad news from Germany - Only 4 of Germany's 128 Eurofighter jets combat ready.

http://www.dw.com/en/only-4-of-germanys ... a-43611873

The report is the latest to cast doubt on Germany's military capabilities and readiness. It raises questions of whether Germany is really meeting its NATO commitments according a report in the magazine Der Spiegel.

The problem stems from a cooling liquid leak in the aircraft's wing pod sensors, which are used to recognize hostile jets or incoming attacks. Without the defense system the Eurofighter jets are not combat ready. The wing pod issue is only one problem facing the Luftwaffe. Der Spiegel reported that there are only enough missiles to make only four Eurofigher jets ready for combat.

Sounds like Germany need to use some more money on defense for the coming years.
Online

hythelday

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 293
  • Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:43

Unread post02 May 2018, 20:44

Suits Germany just fine since if they had sny combat capability they, god forbid, might be asked to commit it somwhere.

It also means that when Luftwaffe sends 4x EF2000s on a BAP mission to Amari or Shaulai AB there are zero fighters available elsewhere. Nice.
Offline

marsavian

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 249
  • Joined: 02 Feb 2018, 21:55

Unread post18 May 2018, 01:54

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -s-448005/

Eurofighter chief executive Volker Paltzo, speaking at the ILA air show in Berlin on 25 April, said that the consortium intends to increase the thrust of the Typhoon’s Eurojet EJ200 engine by “about 15%”, in order to boost payload and range. Each Typhoon is powered by a pair of the 13,500lb-thrust (60kN) engines.

Paltzo says the upgrade will also include additional capabilities for the Euroradar Captor-E active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar that has been in development since 2014.

Describing the Captor-E as a “real game changer” capable of simultaneously tracking multiple targets in the air and on the ground, he says the ongoing development effort includes a “growth plan” to further increase capabilities in future.

The Eurofighter represents a “perfect” and “logical” choice for Germany, because the country already operates 130 Typhoons and economies of scale would deliver savings in terms of both fleet introduction and costs per flight hour, says Paltzo.
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2281
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post18 May 2018, 14:27

[/quote]


I am in awe.

Some days, I wonder if the Russia Stronk Flanker fanboys aren't more grounded in reality than the Eurofighter guys. The platform really only seems to have speed and acceleration over the F-35, which doesn't count for a lot given that it will not see the F-35 until too late. Exercise scenarios notwithstanding.[/quote]

What happened to LM's claim of (paraphrasing), "will out rate any 4th generation platform.."? Or, were you referring to a "clean" Typhoon? I'm still not sure who to believe here. Generally, I take it that the F-35 with an internal combat load can out-rate any loaded 4 or even 4++ generation jet. Yes of course I know there may be edges of the envelope where it falls behind. But if LM's statement is to be taken at face value, any version of the F-35 should out-perform 4th or 4++ generation jets kinematically?

Or am I mistaken in this belief?
Offline

mk82

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 828
  • Joined: 15 Oct 2009, 18:43
  • Location: Australia

Unread post18 May 2018, 18:19

marsavian wrote:https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ila-eurofighter-to-upgrade-typhoon-engine-to-lift-s-448005/

Eurofighter chief executive Volker Paltzo, speaking at the ILA air show in Berlin on 25 April, said that the consortium intends to increase the thrust of the Typhoon’s Eurojet EJ200 engine by “about 15%”, in order to boost payload and range. Each Typhoon is powered by a pair of the 13,500lb-thrust (60kN) engines.

Paltzo says the upgrade will also include additional capabilities for the Euroradar Captor-E active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar that has been in development since 2014.

Describing the Captor-E as a “real game changer” capable of simultaneously tracking multiple targets in the air and on the ground, he says the ongoing development effort includes a “growth plan” to further increase capabilities in future.

The Eurofighter represents a “perfect” and “logical” choice for Germany, because the country already operates 130 Typhoons and economies of scale would deliver savings in terms of both fleet introduction and costs per flight hour, says Paltzo.


Wow, the bullsh*t really flies out hard from the Eurofighter guys. Perhaps someone should tell Volker that the Luftwaffe only has grand total of 4....YES 4......combat ready Eurofighter Typhoons at this point in time. Rest of the Luftwaffe’s current fleet (Eurofighter Typhoons) are hangar queens! The Luftwaffe’s current Eurofighter Typhoon fleet is the very definition of a lemon. There is nothing “logical” about Germany buying more Eurofighter lemons.

The Austrians dumped their Eurofighter Typhoons quite quickly......I wonder why.......
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1246
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post18 May 2018, 18:54

marsavian wrote:https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ila-eurofighter-to-upgrade-typhoon-engine-to-lift-s-448005/

Describing the Captor-E as a “real game changer” capable of simultaneously tracking multiple targets in the air and on the ground, he says the ongoing development effort includes a “growth plan” to further increase capabilities in future.


The Eurofighter consortium just invented the wheel (in the form of AESA radar), LOL :mrgreen:

Oh, and of course I echo mk82's words/last post!
Offline

gta4

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 653
  • Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 19:10

Unread post20 May 2018, 04:46

India just claimed that they detected J-20 with Su-30MKI's radar.
They say J-20 is not that stealthy.
Offline

citanon

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 336
  • Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 21:42

Unread post20 May 2018, 04:54

gta4 wrote:India just claimed that they detected J-20 with Su-30MKI's radar.
They say J-20 is not that stealthy.


With or without Lundberg lens though?
PreviousNext

Return to F-35 versus XYZ

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest