F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post16 May 2019, 03:43

sferrin wrote:

So who exactly is forcing the USAF to buy F-15s it doesn't want?



OSD is who.... :?
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Corsair1963

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Unread post16 May 2019, 03:54

southernphantom wrote:
Agreed on all points. An armed T-X derivative would be an outstanding "low" to the F-35. If executed properly, it could handle both air policing and light attack, while allowing the ANG force structure to be rebuilt. Bluntly, there are very few missions executed by F-16s in the last twenty years that an armed trainer couldn't have done just as well.



Yes, I would rather see additional Boeing T-X's instead of F-15EX's. The former could replace F-5's, F-16's, and F/A-18's in the Aggressor Role. They also could be used in the Light Attack Role. The increased orders would push down the price. Making it even more attractive for export. (sound familiar)

The F-15EX instead leads to "NOWHERE"! :shock:

BoeingT-X.jpg
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Corsair1963

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Unread post16 May 2019, 04:06

Boeing Sees Market for 2,600 T-X, Derivative Aircraft
5/15/2019
​––John A. Tirpak

Boeing sees a potential market for up to 2,600 of the T-X advanced trainers in variants ranging from trainer to light strike and light fighter, said William Torgerson, senior director of T-X program integration at the company.


That includes the “up to 475” jets the Air Force asked for in the T-X competition, which focused only on the trainer mission and not variants for other USAF missions now or previously performed by the 60-year-old T-38, which the T-X will replace, Torgerson said. Those missions have also included Aggressors and companion trainers.


Torgerson spoke at a factory tour for the media at Boeing’s St. Louis, Mo., facilities, where the T-X will be produced. His briefing was the first for the media since Boeing won the T-X contest. Boeing furnished travel and accommodations to press covering the event.


Boeing is facilitizing to build up to 48 jets a year for the Air Force, but can increase the rate to 60 if the Air Force wants to accelerate the program in some years, or if there are foreign sales, Torgerson said.

http://airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2 ... craft.aspx
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marauder2048

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Unread post16 May 2019, 06:03

Corsair1963 wrote:
sferrin wrote:

So who exactly is forcing the USAF to buy F-15s it doesn't want?



OSD is who.... :?


Which is why you get bizarre things like GAO's May 2019 Weapons System Annual Assessment
report which says that the Air Force now plans to develop install EPAWSS across
the entire F-15C fleet.

Uh...what!?

So some fragments of the Air Force's original FY2020 budget are emerging; Holmes' estimate for
the total SLEP (longeron + wing + fuselage) was way too specific and well thought out
and had the feel of something that was costed for the budget.
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sferrin

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Unread post16 May 2019, 11:58

Corsair1963 wrote:
sferrin wrote:

So who exactly is forcing the USAF to buy F-15s it doesn't want?



OSD is who.... :?


It was a rhetorical question. Despite denials to the contrary, it's almost impossible to believe the SecDef isn't rewarding his Boeing cronies by sticking it to the USAF.
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marsavian

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Unread post16 May 2019, 12:21

marauder2048 wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
sferrin wrote:
So who exactly is forcing the USAF to buy F-15s it doesn't want?


OSD is who.... :?


Which is why you get bizarre things like GAO's May 2019 Weapons System Annual Assessment
report which says that the Air Force now plans to develop install EPAWSS across
the entire F-15C fleet.

Uh...what!?

So some fragments of the Air Force's original FY2020 budget are emerging; Holmes' estimate for
the total SLEP (longeron + wing + fuselage) was way too specific and well thought out
and had the feel of something that was costed for the budget.


Perhaps this can be picked up again after Trump and his F-15EX are bought.
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sferrin

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Unread post16 May 2019, 13:20

marsavian wrote:Perhaps this can be picked up again after Trump and his F-15EX are bought.


"His"? Trump didn't order the damn things. :roll:
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mixelflick

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Unread post16 May 2019, 13:32

sferrin wrote:
marsavian wrote:Perhaps this can be picked up again after Trump and his F-15EX are bought.


"His"? Trump didn't order the damn things. :roll:


Blaming Trump for everything is par for the course. Hurricanes, stock market, various natural disasters and school shootings are favorites, but really - anything is fair game. CNN aka FAKE NEWS, MSNBCLGBTQ TV etc will just reinforce the story with "anonymous" sources. The New York Times, Washington Post, SF Examiner etc will all get in on the act too.

You know, just like the "Russian Collusion" delusion..
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marsavian

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Unread post16 May 2019, 13:50

Who promoted this ex-Boeing SecDef ? Who regularly says warm fuzzy things about Boeing. What are the chances of Shanahan operating in a vacuum outside of Trump's wishes ? Who ultimately signed off the DoD budget ? The buck ultimately stops with the President.
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sferrin

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Unread post16 May 2019, 15:21

marsavian wrote:Who promoted this ex-Boeing SecDef ? Who regularly says warm fuzzy things about Boeing. What are the chances of Shanahan operating in a vacuum outside of Trump's wishes ? Who ultimately signed off the DoD budget ? The buck ultimately stops with the President.


That must be why he's got $5 billion to start the wall. Must be why he's getting his way on everything to do with illegal immigration. "Trump's the President of the US and there was a hurricane in the US therefore it's his fault." Jesus, I'd hoped for more but I guess TDS even strikes members of this forum.
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marsavian

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Unread post16 May 2019, 15:31

I am actually a great fan of No.45, the best since Reagan IMO but I just think he is the actual driving force behind the F-15EX and Shanahan is the symptom not the cause but YMMV in interpreting events ;).
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sferrin

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Unread post16 May 2019, 16:19

marsavian wrote:I am actually a great fan of No.45, the best since Reagan IMO but I just think he is the actual driving force behind the F-15EX and Shanahan is the symptom not the cause but YMMV in interpreting events ;).


Shanahan was Deputy SecDef. It made sense to bump him up when his boss left. By some miracle he managed to get cleared of impropriety WRT Boeing while under investigation. Trump didn't do the investigation. Trump didn't order F-15s. The USAF didn't want the F-15s so it's pretty obvious from which direction it came. Blaming Trump for the USAF getting F-15s is ridiculous. Makes no more sense than Trump not being able to do to a lot of things he'd like to do. He's not a King. (And let's be real. It's unlikely that any President performs a line-item analysis of DoD procurement plans.) Even if the USAF went around the DoD brass and told the President directly, "we don't want these F-15s", his hands might still be tied by the desire to maintain chain of command.

TLDR: Blaming Trump makes no sense.
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marsavian

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Unread post16 May 2019, 16:29

Trump had previous form with his early championing of Super Hornet, maybe he just likes the life cost argument of F-15EX in getting maximum value per dollar and having competing companies vie for defence dollars. Regardless of how it came about he now has ownership of this budget proposal and its F-15EX and will likely continue with it during his term/s if it's not struck out by Congress.
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sferrin

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Unread post16 May 2019, 16:52

marsavian wrote:Trump had previous form with his early championing of Super Hornet, maybe he just likes the life cost argument of F-15EX in getting maximum value per dollar and having competing companies vie for defence dollars. Regardless of how it came about he now has ownership of this budget proposal and its F-15EX and will likely continue with it during his term/s if it's not struck out by Congress.


There are lots of things that get stuffed into a budget that the President has little control over if they want to get anything done. That doesn't make them responsible for it being in the budget in the first place. I'd still like to know how Shanahan managed to dodge an ethics, if not legal, violation with the F-15 buy.
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knowan

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Unread post17 May 2019, 09:44

The problem is more that there needs to be stronger conflict of interest regulations for politicians and political appointments in the USA.

Sure Trump appointed the guy, but there should be regulations in place to prevent this sort of sh*t from happening in the first place.
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