SU-57 deployed to Syria

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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southernphantom

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Unread post10 Jul 2018, 22:11

nutshell wrote:
awsome wrote:So in the end the Russians realized they win if they are NOT 26 trillion in debt...


Lol, combining all the public debts of all countries in the world you might get barely half of that. Or a third.or a 4th.

Jeez.


The US is at $21.2T USD total debt, along with $113.9T USD unfunded liabilities such as pensions and Social Security. Never underestimate the power of big government to spend a country into the ground.
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milos984

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Unread post11 Jul 2018, 12:23

mixelflick wrote:Let's try and translate this, shall we?
...
"We brought it to Syria, and noticed the F-22 and 35 easily detected it"
"Since we don't want to buy this turkey in any numbers, we'll try and convince other countries to do so"
"The only chance in hell we have of coming up with the $ to build a sixth gen, is convincing enough suckers to buy SU-57's".
..."
There was an russian lenguage article, which - shortly after deployment to Syria - speaks about modus operandi in Syrian theatre. There was openly stated that testing of Su-57´s passive electronic systems would be done in "hole" ower the desert in Palmyra area, where is smallest chance that Su-57 would be compromised by ground and air based ELINT systems of the adversaries.
It was writen before they pull out Su-57´s from there after two days. Since then they stress that "two days" was not a problem and with help of A-50U AWACS´s everything was done to test what was planned.
I have doubts about this, as I dont understand from where USAF F-22´s or IDFAF F-35I´s came there just to show themselves for waiting russian.
But lets say they dont lie this time.

The Indians then pull out from the issue and our czecho-slovak pro-russian fan boys has nothing better to say just:
Cikani z prednej Azie stupnovali poziadavky na rusov v podobe transferu technologii, a vetsiho podielu na vyrobe FGFA. Indom stejne dochadzaju zdroje na obranu, tak skrtaju... https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php ... 0#p2107370
-> Gypsies from the front of Asia have made requests for Russians in the form of technology transfer, and a greater share of the FGFA production. Indom equally has the resources to defend, so shrink ...
or:
https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?p=2107103#p2107103 Masina ide do finale. Zacnu vyrabat pre seba a urcite prejavy zaujem cina.
Ind je nespolahlivy partner ten nakupuje od kazdeho podla toho co od koho potrebuje.
Mozno sa rusom aj ulavi ked sa zbavia v tejto faze inda.
-> The Su-57 is coming to a finale. They going to pick them up for themselfs, and I'm sure Chine would be interested. India is a reluctant partner who buys from everyone according to what he needs. The russians may be gratefull when they get rid of of india in this phase.

So at all, everything is fine, they can be happe that they get rid of Gypsies (Indians).

Then offcials announced that there would be no large scale purchases of Su-57 and our czecho-slovak pro-russian fan boys has nothing better to say just:
V súčastnosti majú stovky nových SU-30SM,SU-30M2 a SU-35,ktoré im bohato postačujú a v podstate krásne stačia na to,čo vo svete lieta.Nemajú prečo nakupovať SU-57. https://www.modelforum.cz/styles/prosil ... target.gif
-> Today, hundreds of new SU-30SMs, SU-30M2s and SU-35s are in service and that is enough and basically beautiful enough for what the world has to offer. They have no reason to buy SU-57.
They have the resources, I would not see the problem (in that) and the technologies used on these prototypes are (for) years tested on other SU-27 variants, so if they were forced, I think they can start doing (producing) them immediately. But everything is just speculation, what they want on the aircraft (is) to be still in development...


So again and again they say, the existing Su-30/34/35´s are well enough for our needs - I ask how they know - deployment to syria where even Su-35S are droping dumb OFAB-250-270 GB-bombs on enemy which has nothing as integrated ai defense. But they know better...

Also funny is their convincion, that what is need for mass production of Su-57 is already on place and tested for years on Su-30´s - so no problem there.

As is organizing mass production in short time is that easy. So if they really produce some LRIP dozen of Su-57 how they want to organize te whole proces of production and then operational evaluation and then system integration. I dont know but they forget that whole avionic system, regardles how advance, need some operational deloyment to properly "learn how to function". Such cold start with production - not to talk about mass production - would be nightmare for project managers.
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mixelflick

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Unread post11 Jul 2018, 13:35

In response to the Mig-29 and SU-27, the US decided to build the ATF. And across the pond the Eurocanards were built for the same purpose.

The only thing Russia has built in response to that has been.... updated Mig-29's and SU-27's.

So they're largely flying 1980's platforms today with some updated avionics and better engines than existed then. If we were fielding tricked out F-15's and 16's and not the F-35, I'd be concerned. But as it stands, the F-35 is a generational leap for which they don't have an answer.

And probably still won't 5-7 years from now. For better or worse, PAK FA is their only hope. But it is increasingly clear that it's a long shot. Real long...
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rheonomic

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Unread post13 Jul 2018, 02:07

sferrin wrote:
awsome wrote:So in the end the Russians realized they win if they are NOT 26 trillion in debt...


The Su-57 was going to put them $26 trillion in debt? I must have been hella expensive.


Rubles maybe?
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juretrn

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Unread post13 Jul 2018, 06:33

LOL at fanboys thinking every system of the Su-57 exists on Super Flankers.
Except for things such as
- central avionics computer (the one that supposedly uses Elbrus processors)
- Radar
- Himalayas ESM
- DIRCM
- IRST
- New weapons integration
...

So basically everything :/
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aaam

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Unread post14 Jul 2018, 03:38

If (notice I say If) true, interesting development in light of this discussion:

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-a ... ?r=UK&IR=T
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marsavian

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Unread post26 Oct 2018, 12:33

charlielima223 wrote:
rheonomic wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Love the way they neatly lined it up with their latest Flankers.

The same way our P-40's were lined up at Pearl Harbor... :P


I mean, it'd be a shame if something were to happen to them...


Russian and Syrian aircraft have been attacked on the ground by Daesh forces using some rather novel and clever tactics...

https://theaviationist.com/2018/01/08/d ... -in-syria/


Russia is wildly claiming a P-8 led this !

https://www.rt.com/news/442219-kremlin-attack-us-syria/
https://www.rt.com/news/415374-drones-s ... n-defense/
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mixelflick

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Unread post26 Oct 2018, 16:27

So back to the SU-57... :)

This whole deployment was a publicity stunt, with the goal of keeping the Indians in the game. It failed miserably, as the Indians pulled out shortly thereafter. If I'm not mistaken, they had already poured hundreds of millions into the project. Hundreds of millions that will be desperately needed to get the new engine working, AESA, offensive/defensive systems etc.. Predictably, they built a hell of an airframe. I really do like the layout, considering...

1.) They carried over the "tunnel" from the Flanker, which gives a nice weapons storage/area for more fuel
2.) Extremely low drag is a big improvement over the Flanker airframe
3.) Retained the excellent range of the Flanker series
4.) Potential for stealth (whether that potential will be realized is another matter)
5.) 3D thrust vectoring
6.) Nose, wing mounted radars

Everything else is deservedly in doubt, but you have to hand it to Russian engineers - they build beautiful airframes. The real problem being that even if all the other pieces fall into place, it's going to only get more expensive. No mass production means small, extremely expensive production batches of 10, 12, maybe 20 aircraft at a time.

It will be no match for F-22's or 35's, but present great difficulty for Rafale, Typhoon and every other (lesser) 4th gen. US F-15's will in all likelihood finally meet their match with this bird. The SU-57 will hold it all over it in virtually every category, save perhaps for avionics and weapons. Those matter and matter a lot, but it should be able to get close to the F-15, and in everything from BVR to WVR the SU-57 will likely (but not definitively) prevail.

We shall see...
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post26 Oct 2018, 17:23

mixelflick wrote:
1.) They carried over the "tunnel" from the Flanker, which gives a nice weapons storage/area for more fuel

Yeah, about that. Imagine how much more volume for fuel/weapons you would have if you filled in the tunnel? Better RCS by reducing the number of corner reflectors. Less form drag from interference of those interior corners. Arguably some increase in wave drag as it changes the area ruling.
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mixelflick

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Unread post29 Oct 2018, 14:39

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
mixelflick wrote:
1.) They carried over the "tunnel" from the Flanker, which gives a nice weapons storage/area for more fuel

Yeah, about that. Imagine how much more volume for fuel/weapons you would have if you filled in the tunnel? Better RCS by reducing the number of corner reflectors. Less form drag from interference of those interior corners. Arguably some increase in wave drag as it changes the area ruling.


Very true, I wasn't looking at it like that. But for a stealth aircraft, makes a lot of sense.

There's still time to redesign, right? :)
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marsavian

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Unread post29 Oct 2018, 14:54

There's still time to redesign, right?


Sure, they are still building prototypes to test the avionics still with the old Su-35 engine but now masquerading 'in service'. As a next generation fighter it has failed purely on the inability for the design to solidify enough and be potent enough to be mass produced. Meanwhile 320 F-35s have been built in the same development time ready to enhance allied power around the world. It's pretty good Russia doesn't have any real enemies only fake ones produced by their politicians to rile the natives up ;). Oh maybe Ukraine but they were always going to win that one without any NATO support on their side.
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mixelflick

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Unread post30 Oct 2018, 15:29

That's a really good point... failed purely on the inability for the design to solidify enough and be potent enough to be mass produced.

The counter argument is that the design is plenty solid, it just needs a new engine. These same folks claim there's no issue with its stealth (they achieved their goals, whatever those were), it's radar/avionics are all set and the airframe is "final". If that were the case though, why not build a few hundred and just re-engine when the "stage 2" engines get here?

Now some of that may be rubles, not many around and sanctions have taken their toll. On the other hand, they seem to have plenty of rubles to keep pumping out various SU-30, SU-34 and SU-35 derivatives?
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Unread post20 Nov 2018, 03:49

It will be no match for F-22's or 35's, but present great difficulty for Rafale, Typhoon and every other (lesser) 4th gen. US F-15's will in all likelihood finally meet their match with this bird. The SU-57 will hold it all over it in virtually every category, save perhaps for avionics and weapons. Those matter and matter a lot, but it should be able to get close to the F-15, and in everything from BVR to WVR the SU-57 will likely (but not definitively) prevail.

We shall see...[/quote]

I got a very odd feeling that if this guy joined this forum there are going to be like 20 pissed off comments with the guy getting banned the moment he starts his account here. Thankfully the newbie privilege here will prevent him from posting too much. https://qr.ae/TUhm5x Let everyone's blood pressure rise at their own discretion.
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knowan

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Unread post20 Nov 2018, 03:53

fidgetspinner wrote:I got a very odd feeling that if this guy joined this forum there are going to be like 20 pissed off comments with the guy getting banned the moment he starts his account here. Thankfully the newbie privilege here will prevent him from posting too much. https://qr.ae/TUhm5x Let everyone's blood pressure rise at their own discretion.


Idiot fanboys like that are the reason Quora is so sh*t.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post20 Nov 2018, 03:55

fidgetspinner wrote:It will be no match for F-22's or 35's, but present great difficulty for Rafale, Typhoon and every other (lesser) 4th gen. US F-15's will in all likelihood finally meet their match with this bird. The SU-57 will hold it all over it in virtually every category, save perhaps for avionics and weapons. Those matter and matter a lot, but it should be able to get close to the F-15, and in everything from BVR to WVR the SU-57 will likely (but not definitively) prevail.

We shall see...

I got a very odd feeling that if this guy joined this forum there are going to be like 20 pissed off comments with the guy getting banned the moment he starts his account here. Thankfully the newbie privilege here will prevent him from posting too much. https://qr.ae/TUhm5x Let everyone's blood pressure rise at their own discretion.


Who says the Su-57 will ever reach mass production???
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