F-35A vs KF-X

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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weasel1962

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Unread post12 Jul 2018, 04:21

Didn't know 48 hours or less is now considered old news.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... ghter-jet/
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Jul 2018, 05:39

weasel1962 wrote:Didn't know 48 hours or less is now considered old news.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... ghter-jet/



Story is "wrong"...what is being discuss is US Companies joining Japan to develop a future "6th Generation Fighter Program". Which, is at the very early stages. Regardless, what that story says the "F-3" is "DEAD". Yet, feel free to believe "popular mechanics".
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Jul 2018, 05:47

Japan backs out of plan to develop fighter jet on its own

Japan is moving to scrap plans to domestically develop a new advanced fighter jet due to staggering costs and anticipated engineering pitfalls.

The Defense Ministry initially had three possible alternatives for the fighter jet that would replace the F-2 fighter-attacker that will be gradually mothballed from around 2030.

But with China and Russia showing greater military assertiveness in the region, Defense Ministry officials faced the key task of replacing the F-2 with a fighter with more advanced capabilities.

The ministry decided its options were to fully develop the next-generation fighter jet domestically, develop it jointly with other nations, or extend the life of the F-2 through various modifications.

It initially leaned toward domestic development as it was deemed to "be important in maintaining Japan's fighter jet technology," according to a high-ranking defense official.

There were expectations that Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. would play a leading role in developing the fighter jet. This was before a subsidiary of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries ran into difficulties developing the Mitsubishi Regional Jet passenger aircraft for commercial production.

Finance Ministry officials eventually urged caution, citing the huge costs that domestic development would entail.

The government began to realize that domestic development of the next-generation fighter jet carried enormous risks.

Against that background, the Defense Ministry will not seek funding for domestic development of a next-generation fighter jet when requests are compiled this summer for the fiscal 2019 budget, sources said.

Tokyo is expected to sound out Washington as early as this week on the prospects of joint development of the next-generation fighter jet.

A decision on how to proceed will likely be formally made between fiscal 2019 and fiscal 2023 as that is the period covered by the Mid-Term Defense Program that will be put together before the end of the year
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It is still possible that Japan will place additional orders with the United States for the advanced stealth F-35A fighter jet manufactured by Lockheed Martin Corp. as the replacement for the F-2.

The government has already decided to purchase 42 stealth fighters to replace the F-4.

In light of pressure being applied by the Trump administration on allies to "Buy American," government officials may also decide to acquire the F-35A as the successor aircraft for the F-2.

The ASDF now has around 200 F-15 fighter jets, 50 F-4s and 90 F-2s. One F-35A fighter jet has been delivered.

http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201803050037.html
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weasel1962

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Unread post12 Jul 2018, 06:16

2 days later, guess what...

https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/japan-d ... r-program/

Japan Denies Scrapping 5th Generation Stealth Fighter Program

Japan’s Ministry of Defense distanced itself from reports that it is no longer pursuing an indigenous stealth fighter jet.
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weasel1962

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Unread post12 Jul 2018, 07:08

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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Jul 2018, 08:17

weasel1962 wrote:I see someone is in a different planet again.

April 22, 2018 - Reuters
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japa ... SKBN1HR0MM

April 23, 2018 - Flight
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... et-447911/

July 10, 2018 - Defence connect
https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/strik ... e-heats-up

July 6, 2018 - Japan Times
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/ ... urces-say/

Mar 6, 2018 - Jane's
http://www.janes.com/article/78362/japa ... -an-option



The F-3 (based on the X-2) as we know it is dead and you can post as many sources as you want and it won't change that.

F3X2.jpg



Yet, when Japan rolls out a prototype of the F-3 come see me.....I will happily concede. (but it won't happen) :wink:
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weasel1962

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Unread post12 Jul 2018, 10:22

Japan is not developing a 5th Generation Fighter


Yup, noted the F-3 project doesn't exist only in the corsair world. No amount of fact will change that.
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southernphantom

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Unread post12 Jul 2018, 18:07

Corsair1963 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:I see someone is in a different planet again.

April 22, 2018 - Reuters
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japa ... SKBN1HR0MM

April 23, 2018 - Flight
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... et-447911/

July 10, 2018 - Defence connect
https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/strik ... e-heats-up

July 6, 2018 - Japan Times
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/ ... urces-say/

Mar 6, 2018 - Jane's
http://www.janes.com/article/78362/japa ... -an-option



The F-3 (based on the X-2) as we know it is dead and you can post as many sources as you want and it won't change that.

F3X2.jpg



Yet, when Japan rolls out a prototype of the F-3 come see me.....I will happily concede. (but it won't happen) :wink:


Sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring something does not magically make it not exist, despite what you seem intent on believing.
I'm a mining engineer. How the hell did I wind up here?
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mixelflick

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Unread post13 Jul 2018, 14:11

I don't see the F-3 or whatever its called happening. You would think they learned their lesson on the F-2, but maybe not. It's going to cost a boatload of $ to re-invent the stealth wheel, and they'll likely wind up with something closer in capability to an up-engined F-35 than an F-22.

The best solution here is obvious: Keep buying more F-35's.
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talkitron

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Unread post13 Jul 2018, 18:54

Most of us here agree that spending lots of money on R&D to develop a peer to the F-35 does not build war fighting capacity, compared to buying F-35s off the shelf. Japan's decision about whether to develop a fighter is more about domestic industry than anything.

I personally think Japan and the UK would be a good next gen fighter dream team. Both seem to have good aerospace sectors. On the other hand, it might be hard for one country to let the other be the lead on the project.
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usnvo

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Unread post13 Jul 2018, 22:04

talkitron wrote:I personally think Japan and the UK would be a good next gen fighter dream team. Both seem to have good aerospace sectors. On the other hand, it might be hard for one country to let the other be the lead on the project.


By that logic, merging Nash and Hudson into AMC was a brilliant decision. Much like AMC, while both of those countries have capable aerospace sectors, their market share is so low as to make the development of a truly competitive aircraft ruinously expensive. The simple fact is, that if you want to develop a competitive 6th Generation Fighter (note that the KF-X and TF-X programs are more 4+/5th Gen"ish" F-16 replacement projects more about national pride than capability or cost) you have to do it with nations that will buy more than a few hundred maximum. There is really only one country that fits that description.
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lrrpf52

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Unread post15 Jul 2018, 04:36

Image

What's wrong with this picture?

External targeting pod in the ATF/JSF era?

Not sure if serious.

Korean military industrial capacity is impressive-one of the best in Asia now. I would expect more from them.

For any affordable, lightweight 5th Gen peripheral market fighter to be successful, I would be looking at single engine designs based on shared technology with the US or UK.

Another big determining factor for program success is going to revolve on what kind of service ceiling the customer wants. If it wants FL600 or higher, you're going to need serious wing area and power.

If you're worried about violations of airspace from J-20 and J-20 perch attacks on your air defense fighters, you probably want parity, which means a lot of wing area, wing sweep, and power.

So far, the only single engine fighters that have reached FL600 service ceilings have been delta wings. Sweden's proposed Flygsystem 2020 sounds more like what low budget nations are looking for, but I'm not sure what it's designed ceiling is. The Draken (FL656) and Viggen (FL591) had high service ceilings, as did the F-106A (FL570).

Image

Image

Cool thing about the Draken was that it was truly a lightweight fighter interceptor capable of very high altitude perch, but it lacked any radar missiles, and relied on carriage of 4 x AIM-9s.

Flygsystem 2020 appears to have similar wing and lifting body area to the JAS-39 Gripen, which has a rather low service ceiling. If the requirement is only to operate at FL500 max and hope for the best against Flankers and J-20, then you can have a lighter airframe with smaller wing area.

It will be interesting to see how this all develops, and what kinds of partnerships are formed to reduce fleet costs, while collaborating on design specs. The various cultures of the region will factor in heavily into that process.
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vilters

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Unread post15 Jul 2018, 15:54

Psst: You forgot that F-104's were doing aileron rolls around SR-71 at 72;000 ft.
Ok, with a slightly upgraded J-79 but they went high AND FAST.
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steve2267

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Unread post15 Jul 2018, 17:59

vilters wrote:Psst: You forgot that F-104's were doing aileron rolls around SR-71 at 72;000 ft.
Ok, with a slightly upgraded J-79 but they went high AND FAST.


Hmmmm... I recall the accident in which an F-104 appeared to roll around and into an XB-70, but am pretty sure the accident did not occur at 72,000ft.

For sure the F-104 could zoom climb pretty high, and some specially modified F-104's with the addition of a rocket motor earned a few test pilots their astronaut wings...

but the F-104G service ceiling is listed at only 50,000ft.

The F-104 did not have a lot of wing area, relatively speaking.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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Unread post15 Jul 2018, 19:23

lrrpf52 wrote:Cool thing about the Draken was that it was truly a lightweight fighter interceptor capable of very high altitude perch, but it lacked any radar missiles, and relied on carriage of 4 x AIM-9s.


Draken (at least some versions of it) was equipped with Hughes AIM-26B semi-active radar guided missiles:

Image

Fatter missile here on a ground stand in front of the plane here is a license built radar guided AIM-26B Falcon.
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