SU-57: On hold for a decade

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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element1loop

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Unread post11 Aug 2018, 03:48

yes, yes, *BUT*, I read several somewhere's that both China and Russia are at least 10 years ahead in hypersonic weapons tech, and can wipe the floor with us, purify the entire planet of the agro-anglo impirialist dogs. We may need to use chop-sticks from here! Eating with freakin' cutting-edge STICK technology! We just got complacent, we'd assumed superior fork tech would win, it made sense! But now they've got us over a barrel on this hypersonics stuff. ... :shock: :doh:
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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juretrn

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Unread post11 Aug 2018, 23:14

We almost forgot:
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F
Russia stronk
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nutshell

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Unread post12 Aug 2018, 01:18

juretrn wrote:We almost forgot:
Image

F



Hahaha :mrgreen:
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Unread post12 Aug 2018, 02:04

F :twisted:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post13 Aug 2018, 06:16

I am sure Vietnam was counting on the Su-57 to get it into the Stealth Fighter Game! So, now what??? :?
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element1loop

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Unread post13 Aug 2018, 06:53

Corsair1963 wrote:I am sure Vietnam was counting on the Su-57 to get it into the Stealth Fighter Game! So, now what??? :?


Given the '4.5' SH BkIII is probably better in LO performance than T50 (there are still no actual Su57s) with better fully matured sensors, weapons and comms (and probably cheaper over the life-cycle too) and is a match for the PLAAF Su35 force, I'd be considering a couple of squadrons.

That gets them to an initial interoperabilty level that they're going to need and which they can build on, plus opens up relations with many other forces.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Corsair1963

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Unread post13 Aug 2018, 08:53

element1loop wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:I am sure Vietnam was counting on the Su-57 to get it into the Stealth Fighter Game! So, now what??? :?


Given the '4.5' SH BkIII is probably better in LO performance than T50 (there are still no actual Su57s) with better fully matured sensors, weapons and comms (and probably cheaper over the life-cycle too) and is a match for the PLAAF Su35 force, I'd be considering a couple of squadrons.

That gets them to an initial interoperabilty level that they're going to need and which they can build on, plus opens up relations with many other forces.


The Su-57 carries it's Weapons and Fuel internally like the F-22/F-35. So, there is no way the Super Hornet would have a smaller RCS under a combat load. Nor, would the US likely sell Vietnam the Super Hornet in the first place! :shock:
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mixelflick

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Unread post13 Aug 2018, 13:35

Vietnam flys Flankers now, just not sure what type. I don't think they're as advanced as Malaysia's though. Regardless, are they not an enemy of China's? It's tough telling who the good guys/bad guys are in that part of the world, with the exception of the Aussie's.

Speaking of which, Carlo Kopp must be stricken with a good mix of disappointment and rage. First, his country acquires the Super Hornet, then the Growler and now the F-35. That's the exact opposite of what he wanted, albeit it was totally unrealistic. The 2018 F-35 RIAT display alone must have sent him into orbit... :mrgreen:

I just checked air power Australia's page on the PAK FA. No updates in years. I think even he's given up on it seeing the light of day, and clearly outlined how most of it uses the SU-35's systems, engines etc but in a squashed down airframe. Like someone stepped on a Flanker.
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talkitron

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Unread post13 Aug 2018, 20:31

The Vietnam People's Air Force has 47 Flankers: 11 Su-27 and 36 Su-30MK2V according to Wikipedia. This force is not going to defeat a major Chinese attack but might generate some deterrence.

Despite China being the main high end antagonist of Vietnam, the Su-30MK2V is based on the Su-30MK2 version exported to China for the maritime strike role. This is fairly up to date as Flanker variants go. These variants are from the KnAAPO plant in far eastern Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKK
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mixelflick

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Unread post13 Aug 2018, 22:16

talkitron wrote:The Vietnam People's Air Force has 47 Flankers: 11 Su-27 and 36 Su-30MK2V according to Wikipedia. This force is not going to defeat a major Chinese attack but might generate some deterrence.

Despite China being the main high end antagonist of Vietnam, the Su-30MK2V is based on the Su-30MK2 version exported to China for the maritime strike role. This is fairly up to date as Flanker variants go. These variants are from the KnAAPO plant in far eastern Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKK


Many thanks..
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Corsair1963

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Unread post14 Aug 2018, 00:30

While the current Flanker Fleet of Vietnam. Does provide a modest deterrent value. With the advent of Chinese J-20's and soon J-31's. That won't last long...



Which, was my point.... :wink:
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popcorn

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Unread post14 Aug 2018, 01:28

China would be far more concerned about Vietnam's Kilo sub fleet if things ever came to a head.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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Corsair1963

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Unread post14 Aug 2018, 04:00

popcorn wrote:China would be far more concerned about Vietnam's Kilo sub fleet if things ever came to a head.



Good Point.....Yet, you still need to put of a credible defense across the whole spectrum.
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element1loop

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Unread post14 Aug 2018, 04:05

Corsair1963 wrote:
element1loop wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:I am sure Vietnam was counting on the Su-57 to get it into the Stealth Fighter Game! So, now what??? :?


Given the '4.5' SH BkIII is probably better in LO performance than T50 (there are still no actual Su57s) with better fully matured sensors, weapons and comms (and probably cheaper over the life-cycle too) and is a match for the PLAAF Su35 force, I'd be considering a couple of squadrons.

That gets them to an initial interoperabilty level that they're going to need and which they can build on, plus opens up relations with many other forces.


The Su-57 carries it's Weapons and Fuel internally like the F-22/F-35. So, there is no way the Super Hornet would have a smaller RCS under a combat load. Nor, would the US likely sell Vietnam the Super Hornet in the first place! :shock:



The thing is, there are no Su57s, and not much in the way of PLAAF LO aircraft yet (does anyone think J20s are meaningfully operational yet?)

The US and Aust allied with Japan not so long after WWII (a 'nuclear war', as it turned out). And the Vietnam conflict wound up almost 45 years ago.

Superhornet is ~25 years old, and something with considerably better tech and capability is entering USN and USMC service. Washington could offer a subset of the full USN 'bells 'n whistles' version to preserve its more current and sensitive capabilities.

A small SH fleet with a weapon like SLAM-ER, would make the PLAN think twice about mobbing or else opening fire on Vietnamese vessels, operating in international waters. It's a significant deterrent and response.

Five years ago I would have agreed with you. However, if the USN were not still recapping worn-out SH, their production would be closing down. Plus five years ago there were a lot less armed islands in the SCS and China was much less beligerant about it. That vast fleet, needed to build those islands, did not get constructed overnight. It was a long-term plan and specialised ship-building program. It would be a good idea to hedge against what else China is doing in plain sight. And show that level of commitment to helping Vietnam out here.

And frankly, the same levels of trust have been risked with several SEA states, who are from time to time also a bit dubious, as mutual defense partners, and prefer to be non-aligned, and to play us off. And they have had similar generation modern kit for decades.

(and ethically its probably the least the US could do to mend fences with Vietnam and create good will ... 2c)
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Corsair1963

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Unread post14 Aug 2018, 04:16

The US is not likely to sell Vietnam any Super Hornets in the foreseeable future....
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