The Germans are coming!

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spazsinbad

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Unread post22 Apr 2020, 23:07

Don't worry - Be happy - German politicians responsible speak.
German government cites US ties in choice of F-18 planes for nuclear, jamming missions
22 Apr 2020 Sebastian Sprenger

"...Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer on Wednesday was careful to frame the split buy as a mere proposal. The Tornado fleet will be viable through 2030, which means an acquisition program needs to be in place by 2025, with parliamentary approvals planned for 2022 and 2023, she said.

“We have not made a source selection,” she told reporters after emerging from a closed meeting of the Bundestag’s defense committee.

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... -missions/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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citanon

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Unread post23 Apr 2020, 00:17

spazsinbad wrote:Don't worry - Be happy - German politicians responsible speak.
German government cites US ties in choice of F-18 planes for nuclear, jamming missions
22 Apr 2020 Sebastian Sprenger

"...Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer on Wednesday was careful to frame the split buy as a mere proposal. The Tornado fleet will be viable through 2030, which means an acquisition program needs to be in place by 2025, with parliamentary approvals planned for 2022 and 2023, she said.

“We have not made a source selection,” she told reporters after emerging from a closed meeting of the Bundestag’s defense committee.

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... -missions/


These guys and gals are making Trudeau look good. :lmao:
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weasel1962

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Unread post23 Apr 2020, 01:02

I believe the tweet was really factual in that the German parliament has the final say. This was probably made in respect of anti-foreign buy posts by the opposition on the left. I read it as subtle dig to highlight that the opposition can't change the decision if they aren't the majority.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 Apr 2020, 02:20

“The decision cements the transatlantic partnership, and it underpins our credibility within NATO,”


:lmao:
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durahawk

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Unread post23 Apr 2020, 03:05

The rationale for not picking the F-35 was to not jeopardize the paper tiger capability that is currently the FCAS. A jet already in production already competing with a jet still years if not decades away from first flight. Imagine that.

In other words, since prices are roughly comparable to the Super Hornet at this point, they rejected the F-35 for offering too much capability for the current contract.

Let that sink in.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 Apr 2020, 05:42

durahawk wrote:The rationale for not picking the F-35 was to not jeopardize the paper tiger capability that is currently the FCAS. A jet already in production already competing with a jet still years if not decades away from first flight. Imagine that.

In other words, since prices are roughly comparable to the Super Hornet at this point, they rejected the F-35 for offering too much capability for the current contract.

Let that sink in.



Their case is weak and more importantly detrimental to Germany (Luftwaffe) and NATO. As the Super Hornet is totally inadequate for the Nuclear Strike Role past 2030.

As the F-35 it wouldn't compete with the forthcoming FCAS. Which, will take a good 20 years to develop and field. (2040+) Even when it does arrive it would just start to replace the Typhoons. This would take another 10-20 years more...

So, by time they got around to replacing the F-35's. It would be ~ 2050.....Again how does the F-35 compete with the FCAS???
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XanderCrews

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Unread post23 Apr 2020, 17:37

durahawk wrote:The rationale for not picking the F-35 was to not jeopardize the paper tiger capability that is currently the FCAS. A jet already in production already competing with a jet still years if not decades away from first flight. Imagine that.

In other words, since prices are roughly comparable to the Super Hornet at this point, they rejected the F-35 for offering too much capability for the current contract.

Let that sink in.



Super Hornet has still never won a competition. every buy even the US's is based on competition free unilateral politically picked, sole source.
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juretrn

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Unread post23 Apr 2020, 22:51

durahawk wrote:The rationale for not picking the F-35 was to not jeopardize the paper tiger capability that is currently the FCAS. A jet already in production already competing with a jet still years if not decades away from first flight. Imagine that.

In other words, since prices are roughly comparable to the Super Hornet at this point, they rejected the F-35 for offering too much capability for the current contract.

Let that sink in.

AFAIK, the FCAS is a direct Eurofighter (also guided by the "not a pound for air to ground" principle until very recently) replacement - it isn't really meant to compete with the role of the F-35.
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marauder2048

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Unread post24 Apr 2020, 04:35

772nd Test Squadron uses simulators to support high-priority F-35 test missions

By 772nd Test Squadron, 412th Test Wing / Published April 23, 2020
EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. --

As the Air Force Test Center’s 412th Test Wing resumed mission-essential flight testing, the 772nd Test Squadron’s (772 TS) modeling and simulation (Sim) engineers and technicians restarted manned cockpit simulation operations to support flight test mission rehearsals at Edwards Air Force Base, California, April 14.

The 772nd TS reopened their doors to the F-35 Integrated Test Force (ITF), the first customer to do so since the COVID-19 pandemic disrupted operations at Edwards and much of the world.

“Many of our Dual Capability Aircraft (DCA) test points take us to the limits of F-35 performance,” said Lt. Col. James Valpiani, F-35 ITF Director. “Our test pilots and the entire test team are grateful for the opportunity to buy down risk in the Sim before executing airborne over the Sea Test Range.”

...

Getting to performance limits in flight test often requires the pilot to maneuver the aircraft into unusual attitudes, such as pointing directly at the ground, while keeping several different parameters within precise and narrow bounds, including speed and altitude. Meanwhile the test team must monitor many flight and system parameters to ensure the safety of the pilot and the quality of the test data.

Simulation-based rehearsals are imperative to mission success as they prepare both test crew and test team for the many demands they will face real-time. As the F-35 DCA mission rehearsal illustrates, simulator operations at the 772nd TS enable the 412th Test Wing to provide world class support to the Warfighter and the nation .

“The IFAST stands ready to support our next mission,” said Capt. Philmore Scott, 772nd TS, Simulation Flight Commander. “These missions are critical to Edwards Air Force Base’s role as the ‘Center of the Aerospace Testing Universe.’”

https://www.edwards.af.mil/News/Article ... -missions/


Thought the timing of this release was interesting (my emphasis).
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commisar

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Unread post25 Apr 2020, 03:26

juretrn wrote:
durahawk wrote:The rationale for not picking the F-35 was to not jeopardize the paper tiger capability that is currently the FCAS. A jet already in production already competing with a jet still years if not decades away from first flight. Imagine that.

In other words, since prices are roughly comparable to the Super Hornet at this point, they rejected the F-35 for offering too much capability for the current contract.

Let that sink in.

AFAIK, the FCAS is a direct Eurofighter (also guided by the "not a pound for air to ground" principle until very recently) replacement - it isn't really meant to compete with the role of the F-35.


The FCAS is probably going to be a disaster as well. Franco-German infighting about workshare, technology and other items. The jet will cost more than the Rafale/Eurofighter and at the moment only has Spain as a partner. I'd doubt more than 550 copies of it are very msdet.

The UK ruined the FCAS by peeling away Italy and maybe Saab and going it's own way with Tempest.
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commisar

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Unread post25 Apr 2020, 03:29

durahawk wrote:The rationale for not picking the F-35 was to not jeopardize the paper tiger capability that is currently the FCAS. A jet already in production already competing with a jet still years if not decades away from first flight. Imagine that.

In other words, since prices are roughly comparable to the Super Hornet at this point, they rejected the F-35 for offering too much capability for the current contract.

Let that sink in.


Sounds like Germany to me....

The FCAS will be a hilarious dumpster fire. German engine vs French engine, German radar vs French radar, German missile vs French missiles.... Of they don't pick enough German gear, no German money, capability be dammed.
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pron

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Unread post25 Apr 2020, 08:38

Here a video presentation of the political and industrial problems in Germany related to a possible buy of F/A-18 Supoer Hornets and EA-18 Growlers. He is german, but speaks English. This buy is not as easy as the german minister would like.

Why Germany is NOT buying the F/A-18 Super Hornet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7NuNDlJBBI
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marauder2048

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Unread post26 Apr 2020, 09:01

pron wrote:Here a video presentation of the political and industrial problems in Germany related to a possible buy of F/A-18 Supoer Hornets and EA-18 Growlers. He is german, but speaks English. This buy is not as easy as the german minister would like.

Why Germany is NOT buying the F/A-18 Super Hornet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7NuNDlJBBI


He brings up a good point about the state of the SH production line.

FY2021 is now the last year of USN SH buys; the stated purpose for
ending SH production is to convert the production line over to SLM work.

So it's narrow window with price uncertainty; the previous FY2022 - FY2024
Super Hornets were projected at 30%+ increases in flyway costs relative to
the FY19 - FY21 MYP.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post26 Apr 2020, 18:08

Germany outlines Tornado succession plan with Eurofighter and Super Hornet buy
24 Apr 2020 Dominic Perry

"...While many within Germany had pushed for the acquisition of a single type, certain “special skills” possessed by the Tornado – carriage of US nuclear weapons and electronic warfare equipment – required the split-buy. “For this purpose, the intention is to purchase 45 F-18 aircraft as a bridge solution for nuclear participation and airborne electronic combat,” says the German defence ministry.

While Germany is with France and Spain jointly developing a future combat air system (FCAS), this will not arrive until the 2040s. “Therefore, there must be a bridge solution based on models available on the market for the time after the Tornado has become useless and before the FCAS is launched,” it says.

Although unions have argued that the selection of the US-built fighters would harm development activities and industrial capabilities required for the FCAS, this project “should not be endangered”, says the ministry. “In order to maintain unbroken capability, procurement must start from 2025,” it says. “To be able to replace the Tornado in good time, the procurement process must therefore be started now.” The Tornado is “no longer economical and no longer safe to operate” beyond 2030, says defence minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer.

The defence ministry describes the Super Hornets as “already fully developed and available on the armaments market”, and says initial talks with the US administration have already been held. Partner nations “France and Great Britain were also included in the planning”, it adds.

Should German defence committee members agree with the acquisition proposals, detailed plans will be presented to the Bundestag “in the next legislative period” in 2022 or “probably” 2023. “Knowing the established, also parliamentary, processes, we are only at the beginning of a procurement that will take years,” says the defence ministry."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing ... 49.article
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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loke

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Unread post26 Apr 2020, 19:19

marauder2048 wrote:
pron wrote:Here a video presentation of the political and industrial problems in Germany related to a possible buy of F/A-18 Supoer Hornets and EA-18 Growlers. He is german, but speaks English. This buy is not as easy as the german minister would like.

Why Germany is NOT buying the F/A-18 Super Hornet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7NuNDlJBBI


He brings up a good point about the state of the SH production line.

FY2021 is now the last year of USN SH buys; the stated purpose for
ending SH production is to convert the production line over to SLM work.

I thought the last SH for Kuwait is due in 2022? Or is that also scheduled for 2021?
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