The Turkey problem

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botsing

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Unread post14 May 2018, 15:29

tcu is probably a new account of banned user mtrmen. This user was spamming the same polarized messages over and over again, just like tcu is doing now:

mtrmen wrote:Here we go again...

1) It is so childish to claim such nonsense theories. And yes, your puppet FETO false soldiers would do such treachery when ordered just to harm Turkey. But sorry, they are kicked out from the army and can't help you...

2) Perhaps the U.S. should be booted out of the F-35 program for openly supporting and arming FULL MARXIST/COMMUNIST/TERRORIST group of PKK/YPG which has been harming Turkey for 30 years. But, sorry. I forgot that U.S. is the super power and so strong that your some Muslim/Turkish hatred generals and politicians CAN DO ANY STUPID THING they want, but can not be criticised...


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marsavian

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Unread post15 May 2018, 10:51

By the creation and employment of this terrible terror gang, Marxist YPG/PKK, Shia Iran, Assad, Russia and US benefitted... Turkey and sunni muslims suffered


No, Turkey benefited in its long term trans-national persecution of Kurds. If stood by on the border smiling and stationary as Isis butchered northern Kurdish towns. It also bought Isis oil and let Isis foreign fighters enter through Turkey. The recent military incursion into north Syria under the false pretext of anti-terrorism was just an excuse for a land grab for its ethnic Syrian Turkmen to displace Kurds. Notice it has not handed the land back to the government of Syria. It is now a Turkish protectorate in all but name.

Turkey should be removed from NATO and treated as a hostile Islamic nationalist state like Iran because it has no place in modern Europe under militant Sultan Erdogan. The days of a modern looking secular Turkish state as created by Attaturk are over replaced by an aggressive Ottoman Sultanate part 2.
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madrat

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Unread post15 May 2018, 12:56

It's almost like bigotry has been adopted to deal with Erdogan's opponents...
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spazsinbad

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Unread post17 May 2018, 15:33

Should U.S. Block F-35 Deliveries To Turkey?
15 May 2018 Lara Seligman & Jen DiMascio

"In 2019, [at least one F-35A is being handed over SOON] Turkey is scheduled to receive two major new pieces of military equipment: the U.S.-made F-35 stealthy fifth-generation fighter and the Russian-made S-400 surface-to-air missile system....

...One bipartisan group of senators is moving to block the transfer of Lockheed Martin F-35s to Turkey, even as Lockheed prepares to deliver the first Turkish aircraft to Luke AFB, Arizona. [Stairway to Heaven: "sometimes words have two meanings"] And a contingent of House lawmakers is considering a provision in a fiscal 2019 defense policy bill that would stop short of restricting F-35 deliveries but could impede shipments of other U.S. exports there....

...The U.S. has long tried to sell Turkey air and missile defense systems such as Raytheon’s Patriot. But Ankara ultimately opted for the Almaz Central Design Bureau’s S-400 in a $2.5 billion deal. The systems were originally scheduled for delivery in 2020, but that date has since been accelerated....

...Because the sale is not by the U.S. government but by the international F-35 consortium, Congress does not have the legal authority to block it. Ankara is a development partner on the program and plans to purchase 100 F-35As in total, the first of which will soon be delivered to Luke AFB. Given the limitations, lawmakers appear to have realized the best approach to preventing Ankara from receiving the Joint Strike Fighter is to eliminate funds for the planned transfer of the jets from Luke to Turkey in 2019...." [then there is a lot of laDeDah so go read it yourselves - I'm too tired at 0030]

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/should- ... ies-turkey
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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mixelflick

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Unread post18 May 2018, 14:19

I would never sell the F-35 to a country that had a coup attempt in its recent past.

The whole situation just feels like its 1979's Iran again. The Tomcats secrets were stolen, and I don't care what anyone says - they showed up in the form of the Mig-31's AA-9 Amos...
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nutshell

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Unread post23 May 2018, 01:40

So we've a muslim country ,in its way to became a caliphate of some sort, that is blatantly anti-west (they have their reasons, yet idc and idgaf) in line to join the EU, stay in NATO and get the best fighter out there.

I wonder, what could possibly go wrong, right?

The day Erdogan backstabs the west by attacking the Greece (our us, who knows), i hope all the JSF companies CEOs will be there, fighting in the ground, repelling the attacks. Together with all their family members.

Hope Karma do its bitchy things and strike those greedy SoBs hard in their wallets.
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steve2267

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Unread post23 May 2018, 02:00

nutshell wrote:Hope Karma do its bitchy things and strike those greedy SoBs hard in their wallets.


I think that is a little harsh. Yeah, they want to sell planes and make $$. That is the way of capitalism, and what made the West so strong economically (as well as in other areas). But they have a business obligation -- contracts have been signed. IMO, the responsibility goes as much, if not more so, to the F-35 JPO, than to the commercial companies producing the F-35.

Ten, twenty years ago... who would foresee Turkey swing so hard towards Islamic fundamentalism and everything that entails?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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madrat

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Unread post23 May 2018, 04:15

Turkey has always been swung that way. Hello Ottoman Empire.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 May 2018, 06:40

Honestly, this deal with Turkey is blown well out of proportion.....Mark my words it will all settle down and she will get the F-35. (and everything else)
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loke

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Unread post23 May 2018, 07:53

I think the West should draw some very red lines for Turkey and make it clear that those must not be crossed.

Many people would argue red lines have been crossed already.

Keeping US, German, Greek citizens as hostages. check.
Supporting islamists in Syria, Egypt, and terrorists on the Gaza strip and elsewhere. check.
Order S-400 from Russia. Check.
Suppress freedom of speech. Check.
Limit democracy in Turkey. Check.
Discriminate Christianity and other non-muslim religions in Turkey. Check.

Erdogan and his cronies are hypocrites: They blame the US and Israel for "terrorism" and "supporting terrorists" whereas, at least in my opinion, what they are doing themselves is much worse. They blame the West for discriminating against muslims, whereas in reality muslims are pretty well protected in both the US and EU. At the same time this is what happens to Christians in Turkey:

In its 2017 report on human rights violations, Turkey's Association of Protestant Churches details Turkey's systematic discrimination against its Protestant community, listing the hate crimes as well as verbal and physical attacks against Protestant Christians.

The Turkish government doesn't even recognize the Protestant community as a "legal entity," denying them the right to freely establish and maintain places of worship. Since their meeting places are not officially recognized as places of worship, they are often targeted and closed.

On September 5, for example, the Izmir Cigli Church was closed and sealed in response to negative press coverage concerning the church. Its sign, deemed offensive because it contained the word "church," was removed.

Turkey's Protestant community also faces discrimination in the training of their religious leaders. Current law prohibits the opening of religious training schools. Hence, the Protestant community relies on support of foreign church leaders.
However, the report notes that several foreign religious workers and church members were deported, denied entry into Turkey, refused residence permits, or denied entry visas last year.

Another serious problem is workplace discrimination. "Some Protestant community members who work as public officials in Izmir, Istanbul and Diyarbakir were told that because they were Christians and missionaries, their work contracts would not be renewed."

On 18 April 2007, three Christian employees of the Zirve Bible Publishing House in Malatya were tortured and murdered by five Muslim assailants – a horrific crime which still haunts many Christians in Turkey. Some local media outlets had targeted Christians before the massacre. And it appears that many outlets in Turkey are still complicit in attacks against churches and churchgoers.

There has been a spike in negative local press coverage against churches and their members, similar to the news reports preceding the 2007 Zirve Publishing House massacre. "These new publications have created serious concern and apprehension among the churches," according to the report.

Ironically, "Turkey used to be called Anatolia or Asia Minor and was a Christian civilization," writes Dr. Bill Warner. "Today Turkey is over 95% Muslim. North Africa, Egypt, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon used to be Christian. Afghanistan was Buddhist; Pakistan and Malaysia used to be Hindu. Today they are more than 95% Muslim. Islam does not reach a balance point with the native civilization; it dominates and annihilates the indigenous culture over time."


https://www.christianpost.com/voice/tur ... unity.html

Turkish hostage-taking has become one of the most pressing problems in relations between Ankara and its Western allies. It is something that everyone knows is happening, but political leaders and diplomats are reluctant to call it by its name.
The most recent case concerns German-Turkish journalist Deniz Yucel, who was arrested in Turkey in February 2017 on accusations of propaganda for a terrorist organization. Yucel, a correspondent for Die Welt known for his journalism about Turkey’s crackdown, had written articles based on the hacked emails of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s son-in-law, Energy Minister Berat Albayrak.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/02/tur ... ge-taking/

Perhaps the F-35 deal and other deals should be put on hold until it becomes more clear exactly where Turkey is heading, and what their intentions are. From where I am standing it does not look very good right now.
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blindpilot

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Unread post24 May 2018, 06:11

Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, this deal with Turkey is blown well out of proportion.....Mark my words it will all settle down and she will get the F-35. (and everything else)


Well. Watching the Turkish economy and balloon about to burst...
Assuming he can get reelected, he may have to cut back how many F-35s he buys anyway. And about all those ships ...

https://www.independentrecorder.com/tur ... 05207.html

At 500M lira(T) that's a 25% increase in price, over just the last year or so, and it's getting worse. Down to 80 aircraft instead of 100 and falling fast ... Wonder what the inflation is doing for the voter on the street buying bread ... He should have moved the election up sooner ... not going to dodge the bullet ...

FWIW,
BP
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marsavian

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Unread post25 May 2018, 15:17

Secretary of State Pompeo said at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee "IT IS STILL VERY MUCH A LIVE ISSUE, THE TURKS CAPACITY TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE F-35."

01:17:10
https://www.c-span.org/video/?445766-1/ ... start=4626

The Turks seem to think he can't unilaterally stop deliveries now.

https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/2018 ... -to-turkey
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archeman

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Unread post25 May 2018, 22:07

blindpilot wrote:
Well. Watching the Turkish economy and balloon about to burst...
Assuming he can get reelected, he may have to cut back how many F-35s he buys anyway. And about all those ships ...

https://www.independentrecorder.com/tur ... 05207.html

At 500M lira(T) that's a 25% increase in price, over just the last year or so, and it's getting worse. Down to 80 aircraft instead of 100 and falling fast ... Wonder what the inflation is doing for the voter on the street buying bread ... He should have moved the election up sooner ... not going to dodge the bullet ...

FWIW,
BP


Well.... 80 is less than 100, but ---> They only need ONE to get to the secret sauce.
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bigjku

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Unread post25 May 2018, 22:49

marsavian wrote:Secretary of State Pompeo said at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee "IT IS STILL VERY MUCH A LIVE ISSUE, THE TURKS CAPACITY TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE F-35."

01:17:10
https://www.c-span.org/video/?445766-1/ ... start=4626

The Turks seem to think he can't unilaterally stop deliveries now.

https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/2018 ... -to-turkey


The US is paying for the vast majority of it. Whatever the contract says the US can effectively do whatever the hell it wants with the plane. Turkey can complain or sue I suppose.
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marsavian

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Unread post25 May 2018, 23:23

LMT will follow whatever the US government decide. It's a big step to deny Turkey the F-35 but unfortunately their very rude insulting grandstanding has left them in this precarious situation. Only the fact that they are a member of NATO saved them from a severe military response when they shot down that Russian Su-24 Fencer. Even then the severe economic response from Russia cured them of their bad manners towards them. Now they are carrying on this rudeness with all their NATO allies just because we don't quite agree with their military postures to their Kurdish neighbors in other countries and Greece and Cyprus nevermind this new form of autocratic Islamic leadership they now have that squashes political dissent.They look more like Iran every day unfortunately.
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