KFX Thread

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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maro.kyo

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Unread post04 Mar 2017, 11:28

Heya floks. Guess this is my first post in F-16.net :D

Well I've found several posts regarding KFX in F-16.net though not a general thread 'bout it and well, there is also a TFX thread, why not a KFX thread?
Anyways, back to the topic, I'll provide a brief explanation about KFX for those who were not interested in KFX until this moment or didn't even knew that S.Kor was gonna develope their own figther jet.

KFX project was first mentioned on 3rd of November 2000 so roughly about 16 and a half years ago when the former president Kim, Dae Jung attended the shipment ceremony of KT-1 basic trainer. There he declared that Korea will develop a indigenous fighter jet up-to-date at latest till 2015, which is not the case anymore. Then the ED of KFX took place and those of you who have seen some info-graphics regarding the size of various fighters seen from the top like :

Image

Image

Image

these, those c100 and 200 are the initial design models of KFX. (photos created by Korean blogger, Eagle Owl. Many of those unofficial KFX and TFX labelled KFX info-graphics like those above are from him, so thanks to Eagle Owl for easier comparison of fighters)

Anyways, KFX went through several ED processes though got stuck due to changing of president and parliament members, reported lacking of feasibility from various sources and most of all, lack or technology.
Due to those drawbacks, KFX took 14 years until late 2015 to get its system development started. Now ADD and KAI aims to put KFX into service by 2026, so in 9 years. KFX is being developed by KAI, assisted by the TAC Lockheed Martin, various other foreign comapnies and ADD of S.Kor, a DARPA equivalent.

This was a real brief history of development of KFX and is to be continued. If there is a request for it, I can go deeper into how KFX got to the point of it system development and production plan.

Next post is going to be about something very interesting.

PS - I've saw some former KFX related threads on other boards like F-16 versus XYZ or F-35 forum. Dunno if its appropriate to post a KFX thread on F-35 or F-16 board but is that somewhat available in F-16.net?
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Unread post04 Mar 2017, 14:40

Welcome... :)

While I think it's admirable S. Korea pursue a more independent streak, the odds of them successfully developing this are nil IMO. Yes, they're getting help from LM. But it's going to be hideously expensive, time consuming and almost certainly behind timeline. Simply adopting the F-35 is not only going to be cheaper, but it's going to have vastly superior capabilities - particularly when Pratt's uprated motors are delivered.

Compounding those problems will be interoperability concerns with other U.S. allies/F-35 operators during joint exercises, and a doubtful foreign market. Although probably not designed to compete with the F-35 in that realm, I'm sure they'd welcome the money. Other thank China, every other 5th gen I'm aware of is a collaboration/cost sharing between multiple countries. Even the Chinese birds will be heavily dependent on copying Russian engines..
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maro.kyo

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Unread post04 Mar 2017, 17:06

mixelflick wrote:Welcome... :)

While I think it's admirable S. Korea pursue a more independent streak, the odds of them successfully developing this are nil IMO. Yes, they're getting help from LM. But it's going to be hideously expensive, time consuming and almost certainly behind timeline. Simply adopting the F-35 is not only going to be cheaper, but it's going to have vastly superior capabilities - particularly when Pratt's uprated motors are delivered.

Compounding those problems will be interoperability concerns with other U.S. allies/F-35 operators during joint exercises, and a doubtful foreign market. Although probably not designed to compete with the F-35 in that realm, I'm sure they'd welcome the money. Other thank China, every other 5th gen I'm aware of is a collaboration/cost sharing between multiple countries. Even the Chinese birds will be heavily dependent on copying Russian engines..


As what you already would have expected, I'm myself a Korean, though highly agree with your opinion and that was also a general opinion in S.Kor Military communities few years ago when KFX program seemed to be taking its shape. I doubt the estimated budget demand for KFX R&D program which is, as of what ADD and KAI says, $ 7.6 billion, even if its a 4.5 gen fighter development in 2020s. Also this concept of designing a 4.5 gen fighter and refitting it to become 5 gen VLO aircraft in the following blocks is very shady. It appears to be so that main agents of KFX development program doesn't even have a grasp on what a true 5 gen VLO aircraft really needs. :doh:
It is also doubtful if KFX is actually going to be cheaper than F-35 after mass production taking place when thinking about the fact that KFX currently only has 170 aircraft as a fixed demand for Korean and Indonesian air force and only 310 putting F-16s in ROKAF into count. Not to forget the most important part, its too risky that KFX is now the only hope for ROKAF in a near future. If it fails, ROKAF fails and so do our control over our airspace.

ROKAF with KFX over F-35 would definitely have inferior capabilities in comparison to the neighboring rivals though it's now a water which has spilled out of the glass; its irreversible. TBH, I would have felt glad if S.Kor just sticked to buying F-35 and a technology demonstrator, not a full-scale indigenous fighter jet.

Though well, guess ROKAF believes, if successfully developed, that KFX will deliver us a better future with more opportunities and choices. As what I've hear, one of the main factor of developing KFX was inland access to DM and a waaay quicker deliveries of spare parts. They always had a problem with those, for example those goddamned TIGER-eyes in service for F-15Ks in ROKAF thus ROKAF had a way better experience with FA-50s concerning maintenance. More than 92% of FA-50s are operational and this rate already is quite impressive for me.

Anyways, now for the better future and strategical balance in the far east, I could only hope that everything goes well on KFX. Well, atleast its gonna be something better than those Eurofighters out there. ᵵ (ૢ˃ꌂ˂⁎)Շ^
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Unread post05 Mar 2017, 03:54

The pursuit of KFX is solely to make sure F-35 is available
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Unread post07 Mar 2017, 06:21

maro.kyo wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Welcome... :)

While I think it's admirable S. Korea pursue a more independent streak, the odds of them successfully developing this are nil IMO. Yes, they're getting help from LM. But it's going to be hideously expensive, time consuming and almost certainly behind timeline. Simply adopting the F-35 is not only going to be cheaper, but it's going to have vastly superior capabilities - particularly when Pratt's uprated motors are delivered.

Compounding those problems will be interoperability concerns with other U.S. allies/F-35 operators during joint exercises, and a doubtful foreign market. Although probably not designed to compete with the F-35 in that realm, I'm sure they'd welcome the money. Other thank China, every other 5th gen I'm aware of is a collaboration/cost sharing between multiple countries. Even the Chinese birds will be heavily dependent on copying Russian engines..


As what you already would have expected, I'm myself a Korean, though highly agree with your opinion and that was also a general opinion in S.Kor Military communities few years ago when KFX program seemed to be taking its shape. I doubt the estimated budget demand for KFX R&D program which is, as of what ADD and KAI says, $ 7.6 billion, even if its a 4.5 gen fighter development in 2020s. Also this concept of designing a 4.5 gen fighter and refitting it to become 5 gen VLO aircraft in the following blocks is very shady. It appears to be so that main agents of KFX development program doesn't even have a grasp on what a true 5 gen VLO aircraft really needs. :doh:
It is also doubtful if KFX is actually going to be cheaper than F-35 after mass production taking place when thinking about the fact that KFX currently only has 170 aircraft as a fixed demand for Korean and Indonesian air force and only 310 putting F-16s in ROKAF into count. Not to forget the most important part, its too risky that KFX is now the only hope for ROKAF in a near future. If it fails, ROKAF fails and so do our control over our airspace.

ROKAF with KFX over F-35 would definitely have inferior capabilities in comparison to the neighboring rivals though it's now a water which has spilled out of the glass; its irreversible. TBH, I would have felt glad if S.Kor just sticked to buying F-35 and a technology demonstrator, not a full-scale indigenous fighter jet.

Though well, guess ROKAF believes, if successfully developed, that KFX will deliver us a better future with more opportunities and choices. As what I've hear, one of the main factor of developing KFX was inland access to DM and a waaay quicker deliveries of spare parts. They always had a problem with those, for example those goddamned TIGER-eyes in service for F-15Ks in ROKAF thus ROKAF had a way better experience with FA-50s concerning maintenance. More than 92% of FA-50s are operational and this rate already is quite impressive for me.

Anyways, now for the better future and strategical balance in the far east, I could only hope that everything goes well on KFX. Well, atleast its gonna be something better than those Eurofighters out there. ᵵ (ૢ˃ꌂ˂⁎)Շ^


I think South Korea, Turkey, and India. Should have developed their respective 5th Generation Fighter Programs as "Demonstrators". Like what Japan is doing with the X-2 (formerly ATD-X). Then use what they gain to join with a partner or partners to jointly develop a "6th Generation Fighter" in another 10-15 years. Honestly, the 5th Generation Boat has already sailed....
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maro.kyo

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Unread post19 May 2017, 20:24

Guess it was last year or so, IIRC when I saw this thing on the net.
ADD made sth called a flexible plasma generator a.k.a WAPP (Wearable Atmospheric Pressure Plasma)


image_2238247751486087368189.jpg


0054_(3).jpg


565_529_246.png


courtesy Sheldon (blog.naver.com/jhst3103)

As one may see already from its name, it is flexible like a wire or more like a "thread". This thing creates APP via surface discharge and unlike traditional APP generators, which requires gases like Helium or Argon, this thing doesn't need such gases to create any plasma.

They soon came up with an idea to use this to make a blanket to detox chemical agent, thus transfer technologies for industrial, medical and domestic uses.

0054_(2).jpg

courtesy Sheldon (blog.naver.com/jhst3103)

A blanket would probably look sth like this one.

PS. Ho Lee Smokes!

I've gave so much tries to post this thing here and its finally there....
(Stopped counting after 20 try outs)
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maro.kyo

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Unread post19 May 2017, 20:36

Anyways back to our topic of this forum,
as many of you have already expected, ADD also got a plan to use this thing to apply plasma stealth technology for KF-X, more specifically, a stealth for IWB.

12.jpg

(courtesy Sheldon (blog.naver.com.jhst3103)
abstract from "core technology priority planning for national defense (2017)

part in red box reads : "IWB RCS reduction technology through use of plasma"

Well, it is quite obvious that we can't use this to cover up the whole fuselage but it says on this picture:

1488969245.jpg


that they're opting for some possible flow control using plasma. So in the future, I guess its going to be possible to use this thing to cover up the aligned edges or so which will provide great possibilities for KF-X to achieve VLO IMHO.
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