USMC & USAF Pilots on Capabilities of F-35 Lightning II

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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botsing

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Unread post11 Nov 2016, 15:07

USMC & USAF Pilots on Capabilities of F-35 Lightning II Fighter
Defense & Aerospace Report Published on Nov 10, 2016

"Lt. Col. David “Chip” Berke, USMC, former F-22 and F-35B pilot now the Force Management Branch Chief on the Joint Staff J-8, and Lt. Col. Scott “CAP” Gunn, USAF, the commander of the 33rd Operational Support Squadron at Eglin AFB, Fla., discuss the capabilities of the F-35 Lightning II fighter with Defense & Aerospace Report Editor Vago Muradian after the conclusion of a panel discussion on 5th generation combat aircraft sponsored by the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies at the US Capitol."




"Chip" is asked to explain more about his remark that the F-22's excellent performance was the least important attribute of it.


Another point of interest:

Q: "How's the range of the aircraft from an operator perspective?"

CAP: "I think people that say it doesn't have the range are someone that probably looks at a single-engine aircraft and think so it's just an F-16. It aint an F-16.

I fly on a regular basis two training stories worth of training that I would do in an F-15C model with two external tanks on it. So I would go up go out and do one offensive push where we do basically one offensive strike into the area and out and hey I'm bingo I've got to go home on fuel with the F-15C.

In the F-35 I'll go out and do two of those without any problem and one of the things that we found out in the exercise up in Wisconsin, was after we were done firing our weapons after we were done getting everybody into and out of the combat area, if we wanted to go on to keep fighting at that point they would ask us to stick around because of all the sensors we could provide and the data link we could provide to help the 4th gen aircraft who still had missiles on board. We still had fuel and the sensors to be able to provide that information form.

So it's got legs, it's got really long legs."
"Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know"
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popcorn

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Unread post11 Nov 2016, 23:52

Great interview. Anyone have a video of the panel discussion?
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post12 Nov 2016, 02:07

Exercise Northern Lightning just illustrated what we (minus the basement dwellers) all knew all along...the F35 is a killah!!! I hope El Presidente Trump talks to real USAF, USMC and USN F35 pilots, squadron commanders and key program personnel before he simply shoots his gob off again and makes rash decisions on the F35.
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Unread post12 Nov 2016, 02:21

popcorn wrote:Great interview. Anyone have a video of the panel discussion?


This one I think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjTpqF22Ous
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Unread post12 Nov 2016, 09:50

Thanks.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post12 Nov 2016, 12:34

Watching these Defense and Aerospace Report videos made me realise that the fighter pilots flying 5th generation platforms in the USAF, USN, USMC, RN/RAF and the air forces of some the F35 partner nations are way ahead of the curve at this point in time in terms of evolving the CONOPS and TTPs (tactics, techniques and procedures) for 5th generation platforms. It is pretty obvious that effective (and constantly evolving) CONOPS and TTPs for 5th generation platforms are more important than the platform or the technology itself. You may as well throw cash straight into a furnace if you are using outdated/inappropriate tactics and CONOPS for 5th generation platforms.

On another note, Pierre Sprey et al really look like stupid dunces that get Fs for everything and sits in the corner of the room constantly when they comment on anything 5th generation. Whereas Lt Col "Chip" Berke and Lt Col "Cap" Gunn are truly at the "Masters" level when it comes to the employment and integration (with the wider force) of 5th generation platforms.
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Unread post09 Dec 2016, 07:05

Hey all, don't really know if anyone has posted this yet but here it is.....good read.
http://www.sldinfo.com/the-moment-pilot ... aordinary/
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Unread post09 Dec 2016, 07:43

:mrgreen: Would you believe - YES - an earlier link was posted? Search on author a good technique.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24483&p=357748&hilit=Miller#p357748
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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Unread post02 Jan 2017, 06:10

Chip Berke on the F-35... nothing we haven't heard before.


https://www.thecipherbrief.com/article/ ... ntage-1091
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post04 Jan 2017, 20:55

http://www.businessinsider.com/f35-pilo ... ing-2017-1

F-35 pilot: Here's what people don't understand about dogfighting, and how the F-35 excels at it
Alex Lockie

 Since 2001, Lockheed Martin and US military planners have been putting together the F-35, a new aircraft that promises to revolutionize aerial combat so thoroughly as to leave it unrecognizable to the general public. Detractors of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter have long criticized the program as taking too long and costing too much, though overruns commonly occur when developing massive, first-in-class projects like the F-35. But perhaps the most damning criticism of the F-35 came from a 2015 assessment that F-16s, first fielded in the 1970s, had handily defeated a group of F-35s in mock dogfight tests. According to Lt. Col. David "Chip" Berke, the only US Marine to fly both the F-22 and the F-35, the public has a lot of learning to do when assessing a jet's capability in warfare.

"The whole concept of dogfighting is so misunderstood and taken out of context," Berke said in an interview with Business Insider. "We need to do a better job teaching the public how to assess a jet's capability in warfare." "There is some idea that when we talk about dogfighting it's one airplane's ability to get another airplane's 6 and shoot it with a gun ... That hasn't happened with American planes in maybe 40 years," Berke said. "Everybody that's flown a fighter in the last 25 years — we all watched 'Top Gun,'" said Berke, referring to the 1986 film in which US Navy pilots take on Russian-made MiGs.

But planes don't fight like that anymore, and comparing different planes' statistics on paper and trying to calculate or simulate which plane can get behind the other is "kind of an arcane way of looking at it," Berke said. Unlike older planes immortalized in films, the F-35 doesn't need to face its adversary to destroy it. The F-35 can fire "off boresight," virtually eliminating the need to jockey for position behind an enemy. The F-35 can take out a plane miles beyond visual range. It can pass targeting information to another platform, like a drone or a US Navy destroyer, and down a target without even firing a shot. While US Air Force pilots do train for classic, World War II-era dogfights, and while the F-35 holds its own and can maneuver just as well as fourth-generation planes, dogfights just aren't that important anymore. Berke said dogfighting would teach pilots "great skill sets" but conflict within visual range "doesn't always mean a turning fight within 100 feet of the other guy maneuvering for each other's 6 o'clock." Berke also made an important distinction that conflicts within visual range do not always become dogfights.
Also, "within visual range" is a tricky term.

"You could not see a guy who's a mile away, or you could see a guy at 15 miles if you got lucky," Berke said, adding that with today's all-aspect weapons systems, a plane can "be effective in a visual fight from offensive, defensive, and neutral positions." "We need to stop judging a fighter's ability based on wing loading and Gs," Berke said of analysts who prize specifications on paper over pilots' insights. Furthermore, Berke, who has several thousand flying hours in four different airplanes, both fourth and fifth generation, stressed that pilots train to negate or avoid conflicts within visual range — and he said no plane did that better than the F-35. Even in the F-22 Raptor, the world's most lethal combat plane in within-visual-range conflicts and beyond, Berke said he'd avoid a close-up fight. "Just because I knew I could outmaneuver an enemy, my objective wouldn't be to get in a turning fight and kill him," Berke said.

Even in the world's best fighter jet, nobody would choose a dogfight. Though it might be news to fans of "Top Gun" and the gritty, "Star Wars"-style air-to-air combat depicted in TV and films, the idea of a "dogfight" long ago faded from relevance in the world of aerial combat.

A newer, less sexy term has risen to take its place: situational awareness. And the F-35 has it in spades.

:roll:
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Unread post05 Jan 2017, 00:59

Good article. The Chip speaks true.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post05 Jan 2017, 14:41

neptune wrote:Also, "within visual range" is a tricky term.

"You could not see a guy who's a mile away, or you could see a guy at 15 miles if you got lucky," Berke said, adding that with today's all-aspect weapons systems, a plane can "be effective in a visual fight from offensive, defensive, and neutral positions." "We need to stop judging a fighter's ability based on wing loading and Gs," Berke said of analysts who prize specifications on paper over pilots' insights. Furthermore, Berke, who has several thousand flying hours in four different airplanes, both fourth and fifth generation, stressed that pilots train to negate or avoid conflicts within visual range — and he said no plane did that better than the F-35. Even in the F-22 Raptor, the world's most lethal combat plane in within-visual-range conflicts and beyond, Berke said he'd avoid a close-up fight. "Just because I knew I could outmaneuver an enemy, my objective wouldn't be to get in a turning fight and kill him," Berke said.

Even in the world's best fighter jet, nobody would choose a dogfight. Though it might be news to fans of "Top Gun" and the gritty, "Star Wars"-style air-to-air combat depicted in TV and films, the idea of a "dogfight" long ago faded from relevance in the world of aerial combat.

A newer, less sexy term has risen to take its place: situational awareness. And the F-35 has it in spades.


This is so true and many people don't understand this. Situational Awareness is possibly the most important thing when it comes to any kind of combat. if you don't know where the enemy units are or what kind of units they are, you are in deep trouble even if you were much stronger than him. And by extension of this networking to other friendly unit is almost as important to share the SA with every friendly unit possible.

I think people are far too attached to idea of two fighter aircraft dueling against each other until the other shoots down the other. Very seldom do fighter aircraft fly alone and seldom they are the only combat units around. Seldom does the combat initiate when fighters are within WVR. Of course F-35 has by far the best tools for creating own SA and also spreading it to other friendlies around. It also has great tools to deny enemy from having even half decent SA. Besides, when it comes to WVR combat, I'd say EODAS, sensor fusion and HMS will give it some very powerful tools for WVR combat. Of course in combat loads F-35 is also extremely agile aircraft and would be a handful for any fighter around even if it had none of these systems.
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Unread post05 Jan 2017, 21:09

'One our adversaries should fear': US Air Force General describes how the F-35 is above and beyond the competition
Before coming to the Pentagon to head the integration office, Pleus spent 24 years flying the F-16 with just north of 2,200 flight hours, followed by two years as the commander of the 56th Fighter Wing at Luke Air Force Base.

...

"So what's the biggest misconception about this program that you want to leave behind in 2016?" I ask.

"I'll use an analogy that I heard a few years ago," Pleus began.

"The F-35 was an airplane on paper only," he added. "The F-35 was a capability that was only on paper — it has not been proven. Yeah, maybe there are some test pilots that are flying it, but it's too far away and it's not a real airplane."

"That is my overall biggest misconception about the airplane," said Pleus.

"We have pilots that are flying it and executing missions today that simulate a combat environment, and we know that this airplane has capabilities that are far better than we could have ever hoped for in a fourth-generation aircraft."

"I can tell you that it is by far the best platform I've ever flown in my entire life, and at that you would have to take me on my word."

...

"If you were to engage an F-35 in say, a visual dogfight capability," he added, "the capabilities of the F-35 are absolutely eye-watering compared to a fourth-generation fighter."

"The airplane has unbelievable maneuvering characteristics that make it completely undefeatable in an air-to-air environment. So if it's a long-range contact, you'll never see me and you'll die, and if it's within visual-range contact you'll see me and you're gonna die and you're gonna die very quickly," said Pleus, who has 153 flight hours in the F-35.


Much more at the jump

Http://www.businessinsider.com/general- ... f35-2017-1
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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Unread post05 Jan 2017, 21:23

http://www.businessinsider.com/general- ... f35-2017-1

'One our adversaries should fear': US Air Force General describes how the F-35 is above and beyond the competition

Amanda Macias

WASHINGTON — Greeting me upon arrival in the doorway to his office, US Air Force Brig. Gen. Scott Pleus, dressed in an olive green flight suit, offered his hand. From his direct eye contact, exact manner of speaking, and overall subject-matter discipline, it's clear he's a command pilot. I'm here to ask him about milestones, setbacks, misconceptions, and his work as a wing commander, pilot, and now director of the integration office for America's priciest weapons system: the F-35 Lightning II. Before coming to the Pentagon to head the integration office, Pleus spent 24 years flying the F-16 with just north of 2,200 flight hours, followed by two years as the commander of the 56th Fighter Wing at Luke Air Force Base. While at Luke, Pleus welcomed a unique challenge: Develop the next-generation of lethal F-35 fighter pilots. Within a few months, the first student for the 56th Fighter Wing began F-35 training — it was Pleus. Now headquartered at the Pentagon for a little over five months, Pleus is the single voice for the US Air Force to the F-35's Joint Program Office

.... "We have pilots that are flying it and executing missions today that simulate a combat environment, and we know that this airplane has capabilities that are far better than we could have ever hoped for in a fourth-generation aircraft." "I can tell you that it is by far the best platform I've ever flown in my entire life, and at that you would have to take me on my word."
.... Since IOC, the US Air Force has trained more than 120 pilots in 100 F-35As, accruing a combined total of 75,000 hours of flight time.
.... comments he made at the Air Force Association's annual conference in September. "In terms of lethality and survivability, the aircraft is absolutely head and shoulders above our legacy fleet of fighters currently fielded," he said at the time. "This is an absolutely formidable airplane, and one our adversaries should fear."
...."If you were to engage an F-35 in say, a visual dogfight capability," he added, "the capabilities of the F-35 are absolutely eye-watering compared to a fourth-generation fighter." "The airplane has unbelievable maneuvering characteristics that make it completely undefeatable in an air-to-air environment. So if it's a long-range contact, you'll never see me and you'll die, and if it's within visual-range contact you'll see me and you're gonna die and you're gonna die very quickly," said Pleus, who has 153 flight hours in the F-35.
.... 'The only experts in the F-35 business, are those that fix, maintain, and fly the F-35'
..... highlight this year will be when the 34th Fighter Squadron at Hill Air Force Base reaches its full capacity of airplanes in the fall. "That means that not only will they have their 24 primary assigned aircraft but they will also have the right contingent of properly trained pilots and properly trained maintenance as well as their intelligence folks. At that point, you have a full squadron that a combatant commander would be looking for for a true combat role."

...some more of the above from Spud..
:)
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Unread post05 Jan 2017, 22:59

I love all these guys. And they are all so good at explaining theory.

Until? => Until you read the ROE's of 99% of the "real world combat scenario's".

ROE 1 :
" Visual ID required before shooting.".

ROE 2 :
"Read ROE 1."

And now, with US and Russian planes flying in the same area? => It is ROE 1 in BOLD. => Crosscheck, and double crosscheck.
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