Man-portable Mini Gun?

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LinkF16SimDude

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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 15:35

OK....so out of shear unadulterated boredom and because of cruddy weather I forced myself to watch a rerun of the first Predator movie and in a certain sequence, Jesse "The Governor" Ventura unveils what appears to be a man-portable 7.62 Mini Gun and proceeds to employ it on some bad guys with great efficacy. Plus it had a wicked cool Hollywood muzzle flash! 8)

Now given the fact you'd probably need a guy as big as Jesse Ventura to tote the dang thing (how much would a couple thousand rounds of 7.62 weigh anyway?), anybody care to speculate on just what kind of real-world effectiveness such a weapon would have (if any) and is it even feasible to begin with?
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Asif

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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 15:53

I read some where that electrics for mini gun were driven off set and all the wiring was fed up through and around Mr. Ventura's trouser legs. The jungle set was great hiding all the feeds coming.

Plus the number of rounds he let loose had to be more than what the average F-15/F-16 Squadron carried around. The ammo drum for those birds aren't that small at all. Could you imaging Jesse carrying a oil drum on his back.. What photography that would have made.!!! :lmao:
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LinkF16SimDude

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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 16:19

Asif wrote:I read some where that electrics for mini gun were driven off set and all the wiring was fed up through and around Mr. Ventura's trouser legs. :lmao:

YIKES!...Let's see...Lotsa electric juice running up his pants as he stands on a wet jungle floor. Pray they have a GFI installed somewhere! :lol:

Asif wrote:...the number of rounds he let loose had to be more than what the average F-15/F-16 Squadron carried around. The ammo drum for those birds aren't that small at all.

True for 20mm. But the 7.62mm is a much smaller round, right? It's essentially the same kinda round used on the Spectre and Pave Low mini gun, I think.
Last edited by LinkF16SimDude on 31 Mar 2006, 16:25, edited 1 time in total.
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parrothead

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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 16:24

Yep, it's also the same round used by the AK-47.
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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 16:59

The answer is it's completely impractical. There was a 5.56mm minigun prototype that GE built as a squad automatic weapon (the XM214), it fired at a reasonable 1000-1200RPM but the system was capable of up to 10,000RPM due to the light weight of the barrels and bolts for a 5.56mm round. With a tripod and 1000 rounds of ammo it weighed in at 85(!) pounds. Turns out the FN Minimi was much more practical for the role of a SAW, thus the M249 SAW is in service.

The hand held M134 that was in Predator was build specifically for Hollywood, and was dangerous to even dry fire. The brass it threw out came out at such a high velocity that it could lacerate skin. It was toned down to 1700RPM to reduce the empty casing velocity and to reduce the torque load when it spun up, and they really did fire blanks for that shot.

A for-real man portable minigun is not tactically useful because it blows through ammo way too fast (and if you don't want very high rate of fire, why carry around 6 barrels?), and it requires external power (read: heavy). A minigun is an effective vehicle mounted crew-served weapon for laying down suppressive fire, but for squishies on the ground, it just doesn't make sense.

Spectre no longer has 7.62mm miniguns. The AC-130U now has one 25mm GAU-12 cannon, 1 40mm Bofors cannon and one 105mm howitzer. The 25mm is more lethal and has a better standoff range than 20mm (and of course better than the 7.62mm). The big danger to the gunships is trashfire, and the rifle caliber miniguns just exposed the system too much.

The AK-47 fires a 7.62mmx39mm cartridge, the M134 (which is what the Predator minigun is based on) fires NATO 7.62mm, which is 7.62x51mm. The NATO round is about 1/2 inch longer, fires a heavier bullet and has more muzzle velocity and muzzle energy.
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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 18:08

Thanks for the correction on the different rounds :) . I was just thinking 7.62mm.
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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 21:07

In my dim recollection of Predator, didn`t Mack` max` out after firing 200 rounds? When he shot at the invisible alien in that jungle clearing? Mack` held the triggers for about ten minutes with the barrels spinning on empty!

Best line in the film, when Mr Ventura gets cut by shrapnel...
"Your`e bleeding!" Jesse replies..."I ain`t got time to bleed!" :D
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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 22:12

I think I timed it at 20 seconds. But there were multiple cuts of the same shot, so who knows. It IS Hollywood after all. :D
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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 22:29

Hmmmmmm.......

I thought the Predator mini gun was actually in .22 caliber. But thats just hearsay and not admissable in court :wink:

And here's a little bit of trivia for you all. Did you know that the 40mm Bofors guns on the AC-130 are going away? Its not an immediate removal and replace thing, but through atrition (did I spell that right?). There are no more barrels for the thing as they are slightly modified AAA guns from Korean War Navy ships. So as the barrels wear out, they are replaced with the new 25mm GAU-12. Pretty good trade if you asked me!

I'm sad to see a classic gun go away, but when you can't fix it anymore... well what can you do.

Now a Man Portable Rail Gun, that would be cool! :beer:
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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 22:52

Now a Man Portable Rail Gun, that would be cool!


You been watching another of Senator Arnies movies.... You been Erazed!!! :lmao:
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Unread post31 Mar 2006, 23:27

Close, it's attrition. The cannon actually dates back to a design from the late 1800s. In the 1920s Bofors developed a 40mm version of the cannon for the Swedish Navy. From there just about EVERYONE started making versions of the cannon for AA defense. I think the US got their version from the British.

The 40mm is liked because it has a nice HE payload, they use it kind of like a carbine rifle. The 105mm is used to end arguments, but the 40mm has a much faster rate of fire, good for truck plinking. It's too bad they're losing it, but I guess F-35 > sustainment...

There is also talk of replacing the 105mm howitzer with a breech loaded 120mm mortar. Which I think is another way of saying a very low velocity 120mm howitzer...

Did I mention I'm a gun nut?
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Unread post02 Apr 2006, 20:26

parrothead wrote:Yep, it's also the same round used by the AK-47.


Not quite Parrothead, but GuySmiley beat me to it. The AK fires the 7.62X39mm, while the MiniGun (and the M-14) fires the 7.62X51mm, aka, 7.62 NATO, aka, .308 Winchester. The Russians always used off-sized ammunition to prevent its use by NATO troops.

The MiniGun used in the films Predator and Terminator 2 is, for the most part, a Hollywood prop. The gun itself may be picked up by a very large man (See: Jesse Ventura, Bill Duke, and Arnold Schwarzenneger), but as stated before, picking up a combination of the gun, the electric power unit, AND the large ammo magazine would be impossible.

BTW, Bill Duke would've destroyed the barrels firing it the way he did when the Predator spooked him.

So, all in all, what we saw in Predator and Grand Theft Auto: Vice City is simply wishful thinking...but a very good and creative wish. :wink:

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Unread post03 Apr 2006, 11:45

Interesting reading about weight and power required.

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Ma ... inigun.htm

Plus this forum seems to have had some answers as well of interest to some of you.

http://www.nitpickers.com/movies/nitpick.cgi?np=37
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Unread post13 Apr 2006, 06:09

I read somewhere that the 7.62 M-134 produces about 800 lbs. of thrust. :wink:
I'd say this is about as man portable as it ever got (5.56mm):

http://www.montysminiguns.com/RealityPage.htm

BTW, the one in Predator had a wire going down Ventura's leg to the battery and it shot low-load blanks to avoid the recoil.
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Unread post13 Apr 2006, 16:34

Firing 168 grain rounds at 2,600 fps at 3,000 rpm I get about 320 foot pounds of force. Held at hip-ish level that's around 800-900 pounds of recoil. :D
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