HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1394
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore
  • Warnings: 1

Unread post09 Jan 2019, 00:57

There are inherent advantages that the Chinese provide e.g. Beidou access and cheap UAVs. Its easy to talk about indigenous development but India has shown what the reality really is. Despite all the talk about local development, its still foreign engine, radar, avionics, nose cone, munitions for the Tejas.

That's why India has limited JDAM-like capability whereas Pakistan has gone all in.
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1394
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore
  • Warnings: 1

Unread post09 Jan 2019, 08:53

Malaysia looking at Tejas.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2019/01/ ... stani.html

Weasel's note.
Malaysia which has a limited military budget is reportedly looking at the Tejas. Cooperation with India is significant in terms of Sukhoi maintenance and training support. However, it is too early to rule out JF-17, particularly as the Tejas uses a lot of Israeli tech that is "haram" to Malaysia. Hence they might do what they did with the Su-30mkm which is to integrate western avionics.

The use of Chinese tech is not unacceptable to Malaysia since they have procured littoral combat vessel from China (and made in China). Malaysia has also bought Pakistani ATGMs under the current PM. The current PM is also a maverick, known for pushing Malaysia's military procurement from a purely western arm to integrate the Mig-29 (which allowed the follow on buy of the Su-30mkm.The RD-33 engine is similar to the Mig-29s used by the RMAF. Similarly the F404 equips the legacy hornets operated by the same.

Also although Malaysia's 2018 military budget has seen a drop from 2017, the procurement of combat aircraft is a well known and long term plan whose need is recognised and shared by all political parties in Malaysia. A $25-30+m buy along the JF-17 range is likely appealing from a budget standpoint which is similar to a Mk 1 cost although a Tejas mk 1A appears to be significantly higher cost.
Offline
User avatar

element1loop

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1124
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 05:35
  • Location: Australia

Unread post09 Jan 2019, 09:17

weasel1962 wrote:Malaysia looking at Tejas.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2019/01/ ... stani.html


Interesting, didn't see that one coming, but it makes sense as well for low cost of operation.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 5061
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post10 Jan 2019, 02:56

HAL is only producing a handful of LCA (Tejas) per year. So, considering the chronic shortfall in Fighter strength in the Indian Air Force. How could they spare any for export.... :?
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2832
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown
  • Warnings: 1

Unread post10 Jan 2019, 17:16

Whether Tejas is near 4th gen, 4.5 gen or something else the big question is, is it affordable?

The way I understand it, India has a requirement for a LOT more combat aircraft. If Tejas is affordable, they ought to buy it and buy a lot of it - because it's the only aircraft that'll be able to be produced in numbers. The Rafale is a wonderfully capable aircraft, but no way they're going to ever be able to afford enough of them to fill out their fighter wings.

Tejas (like every other combat aircraft) will benefit from upgrades along the way, probably turning into a useful "swing role" fighter. Until the Indians actually get going though on stamping them out, "made in India" is going to ring hollow. If nothing else, it'll give them the experience necessary to build (later), more competitive airframes.

I do think its wing is ugly as all hell, but hey - aircraft tend to grow on you..
Offline

tphuang

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 02:42

Unread post10 Jan 2019, 18:55

I think LCA is turning out to be a lot more expensive than originally planned. For the same cost, pretty sure IAF would rather have more MKIs. But if India wants to be a respected power, they need to develop their local industry.
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1394
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore
  • Warnings: 1

Unread post11 Jan 2019, 03:44

There are a lot of numbers floating around about HAL cost so I went back to the government source. The below does not include development costs.

The 20 IOC contract was signed for 2701.8 crore in Mar 2006 or 135 crore per fighter which translates at then exchange rate of 44.3 to US$30.5m each. The contract was amended to 2812.91 in 2008. By 2011, HAL was asking for 1381.98 crore in additional funds.

The 20 FOC contract was signed for 5989.38 crore in Dec 2010 or 299.5 crore per fighter which translates at then exchange rate of 45.3 to US$66m each. Its US$42.7m at today's exchange rate but clearly it would not be 299.5 crore per fighter today.

The Mk 1A contract has not been agreed. It is important to note that most of the foreign items would be priced in US$ so in crore terms, it would be more costly if bought today vs 5 years ago. The biggest foreign items include engine, radar, radome and other avionics.

I think US$60+m per plane would be realistic and more likely why Malaysia is not likely to purchase it due to the availability of cheaper options.
Previous

Return to Modern Military Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 9 guests