F-22 vs. F-14? Would there be any competition?

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor

Who would win in a fight? (Please post reply to topic too)

F-22
119
90%
F-14
13
10%
 
Total votes : 132

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cbale2000

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 04:20

I was viewing another forum where some guy is arguing that an F-14 (newest model) could take on/beat an F-22.

Now I have tried repeatedly to prove him wrong but he keeps comming up with info about "how an F-14 can track a F-22s heat signature and fire on it before the F-22 could fire", "how the F-14 can manuver better than the F-22", and all sorts of other info that, to me, sounds bogus.


So, what I'm looking for is some solid evidence that an F-22 could beat an F-14. Any information helps. And if the guy is right and an F-14 CAN beat an F-22, please, by all means let me know.


Thanks in advance. :wink:
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Lawman

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 04:37

Remind him the the F-14 is limited to 6.5 G Maximum because of airframe fatigue and stress concerns. Compaired to the F-22's 9.

Tell him that IRST that would be used to "track" and F-22 only gives you elevation and bearing not range. You need range to conduct an intercept otherwise your just gonna head towards the spot till you have him visual, not a good idea to take an Turkey into a merge with a Raptor. Also the effective range of IRST is way way way lower then even the most basic radar and its not subtible for use in weather.

The Raptor has a higher Sustained and Instinatious turn radius. The Raptor has a much higher thrust to weight ratio allowing it to regain energy far faster then an F-14.

And finally remind him that it takes between 40 and 50 hours to get one F-14 off the ground for one hour of flight time.
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cannon27

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 04:38

I think that the f-14 would have no chance against the f-22. First of all I think the Stealth factor of the f-22 gives it a major advantage in first kill, first view of bogies capapbilities. I was reading an articl about f-22's and f-15's going at it. The article was in the National Geographic edition of the 100 years of flight edition. The f-15 pilots talked about how they could not spot the 22 until it was basically on top of them from their canopy. The second reason is manuvearability (sp chek). Thrust vectoring on the 22 will give it a great advantage on turning capapbilities, which as we know is essential to winning Air battles. Those are just my thoughts and what I have read.
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cbale2000

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 04:43

The guy also mentioned that an F-14 could use it's IRST to fire a AIM-7 Sparrow before the F-22 could fire.

Any thoughts on that?
Last edited by cbale2000 on 20 Oct 2005, 19:55, edited 1 time in total.
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swanee

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 04:45

If the F-14 could beat the F-22 then why is the navy retiring the F-14 and why didnt the Air Force buy any F-14s? At almost 270 mil (including R&D costs) the raptor is hugely more expensive than a Turkey...
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cbale2000

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 04:49

swanee wrote:If the F-14 could beat the F-22 then why is the navy retiring the F-14 and why didnt the Air Force buy any F-14s? At almost 270 mil (including R&D costs) the raptor is hugely more expensive than a Turkey...


Thats what I told him, I never really got a strait answer back though. He still denys that the F-22 is better. This guy is like a F-14 extreamest. :lol:
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TenguNoHi

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 05:48

Did you tell him that only Navy pilots fly F-14s and therefore they were doomed to lose to begin with even if it was against a P-47?

Haha, J/K

But serious, the guys a moron, just ignore him...

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Lawman

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 06:11

cbale2000 wrote:The guy also mentioned that an F-14 could use it's IRST to fire a AIM-7 Sparrow before the F-22 could fire.

Any thoughts on that?


I REALLY want to get enough good info to shove in this guys face to make him look like an idiot. He is basically just a Tomcat fanboy with a LOT of resorces.


Did he mind telling you how he McGuyver linked the AIM-7's Seaker head and slaved it to the IRST since its a Semi-Active Radar guided missile? Or what mode the Radar has to be in to Fire an AIM-7 as an IR missile.
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Delta

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 06:28

Do you have a link to this forum? It would be fun to see what he all has to say.
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Sniper69

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 06:29

You could also tell him the Turkey would get an AMRAAM up its tailpipes before it was able to get in IRST range. The F-14 aint all that stealthy... :whistle: . I love the Turkey, but up against a Raptor all it could do is live up to that nickname.... meat. :crazypilot:
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TenguNoHi

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 07:28

Not to mention the sparrow's pk.... :p

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 11:43

The Tomcat is a classic aircraft that will be remembered with the 'all-time' greats like the Corsair, Hellcat, Phantom, etc... (in a Navy context)

But - look at where aviation technology has come in the past few decades. The F-14, although probably ahead of it's time in some ways, first flew in 1970 - that's 35 years ago (it's first cruise with VF-1 and VF-2 provided air cover for the evacuation of Saigon). Just think of where aviation technology was in that same period of 35 years before the Tomcat - in 1935 we were experimenting with aircraft that only had one set of wings, retractable landing gear were still pretty new, and at least some ABDR could still be done with a needle and thread...

The Tomcat was a generational leap in capability from the Phantom, yet there was only a 12 year difference between first flights (F-4, 1958). The state, and capability, of aviation was progressing quickly during those years - but that gain hasn't slowed much in the 35 years since then. We've jumped probably a couple of generations. Vastly upgraded aerodynamics. Stealth, like it or not. Incredible electronics increases. Exponential increases in servicability - as Lawman said above - whatever you may think about Tomcats being replaced by Hornets and their respective capabilities, ten Hornets on the flightdeck beats six Tomcats on the hangar deck any day of the week. They have to fly to fight.

As much as I love the old Tomcat, it is just that, old. "Anytime, baby!" is passing into history, just as the other greats did before it. Remember it for what it was, but don't try to think that it's something that it's not anymore.

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CajunMaintainer

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 12:22

Even the Eagle can entertain the Tomcat all day.....this guy needs to check out life off of the carrier.
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cbale2000

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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 19:52

Ok, here is a link to the topic on the forum:
http://acecombat.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9175&st=0

The F-22 vs. F-14 arguments don't come up untill about page 7 or so (I don't even remember)



Also, here was his most recent reply to what I posted:

(cbale2000 @ Oct 19 2005, 11:47 PM)
I finnaly got some good info on a F-22 vs. F-14 situation. I actually posted bits of our debate on a forum that 90% of the members are in the Air Force. Here was a reply I got from someone:

Remind him the the F-14 is limited to 6.5 G Maximum because of airframe fatigue and stress concerns. Compaired to the F-22's 9.

Tell him that IRST that would be used to "track" and F-22 only gives you elevation and bearing not range. You need range to conduct an intercept otherwise your just gonna head towards the spot till you have him visual, not a good idea to take an Turkey into a merge with a Raptor. Also the effective range of IRST is way way way lower then even the most basic radar and its not subtible for use in weather.

The Raptor has a higher Sustained and Instinatious turn radius. The Raptor has a much higher thrust to weight ratio allowing it to regain energy far faster then an F-14.

And finally remind him that it takes between 40 and 50 hours to get one F-14 off the ground for one hour of flight time.


1-Yea, we realize that. We're not stupid. But we're talking hypothetical, so let's say it's a new build F-14D v. F/A-22.

2-Once again, we're acutely aware of the fact. That's why IRST is tied into the TCS and Radar. Combine all three, and you have range. Also, the AAS-42 is a newer system that is infact a very prevalant system in this debate. http://assist.daps.dla.mil/quicksearch/ ... 1436--Care to file an FOIA to prove otherwise?

3-No one disputes this, but merely inform you that the tomcat still has a fighting chance. And also notice they do not dispute the AOA?

4-Tomcateers have known and come to terms with this fact for YEARS... Bringing it up again is meaningless.

5-Using AC as an example, put a bullet in your arugment...

6-How about a link to that board?


I'm not shure I want to give him the link to here though, unless I edit a few of my posts above. :shock:
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Unread post20 Oct 2005, 19:55

Delusional describes it well. An F-14 new out of the box would get spanked up one side and down the other. No question at ALL.

Notice how THEY didn't address the stealth issue, or that the AIM-7's PK is less than stellar? And how even with directing by IRST could a SARH missile track a stealthy airframe?

Just because you can point a radar doesn't mean you get a return. And while the F-14 is doing this magical IRST+SARH missile dance a Raptor could pop out an AMRAAM then turn tail and light the burners. Tomcat loses.

(edit)

Hehe I just thought of somethin else. I wonder if the F-14 RIO could see the AMRAAM drop and light? I'm betting that'd increase the pucker factor. :D
Last edited by Guysmiley on 20 Oct 2005, 20:33, edited 2 times in total.
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