Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

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hythelday

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Unread post30 Apr 2018, 13:31

Alleged Iranian SSM depot in Syria under attack last night:

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-new ... -1.6035801
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Syria ... ses-553080
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/30/worl ... ctionfront
https://apnews.com/89c19b1d9cff48baa624 ... y-Iranians
https://www.afp.com/en/news/23/missile- ... oc-14f8q31
http://www.dw.com/en/syria-state-media- ... a-43586377

While there's been a number of speculations whether or not Adirs have seen combat already (including some reports about shoot-downs, of course), there hasn't been any fool proof evidence of such involvement.

However at this point it is just a matter of time. Iran is firmly implanted in Syria, and it isn't there to spread friendship and co-prosperity. It cannot afford to keep losing expensive and hard to replace assets to Israeli airstrikes, so its options are 1) withdraw 2) defend. Since withdrawing is quite unlikely to say the least, I say it'll try to set up and use air defence bubble which the Israelis will naturally seek to destroy. And while small-scale, thoroughly organized and supported strikes are doable with Sufas and Raams (even then some losses are inevitable, as was recently demonstrated) a dedicated SEAD package will have to contain F-35s.
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loke

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Unread post30 Apr 2018, 17:37

Corsair1963 wrote:
Your not going to buy any version of the Strike Eagle cheaper than the F-35A. Which, is why this whole idea of Israel acquiring more F-15's over F-35's is "ABSURD". :shock:

So Israel changed their mind about buying more F-15?

In any case, it seems the IAF believes the F-15 can carry more than the F-35:

According to sources close to the issue, while the F-35 can perform best when its stealth feature is essential — in later phases of combat — the IAF believes the need is for other aircraft, ones with advanced avionics that can operate in conjunction with the F-35 and carry heavy loads of weapons.


https://breakingdefense.com/2018/04/wil ... p-balance/
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Unread post30 Apr 2018, 18:13

What happens when BEAST MODE is enabled for the F-35i - is the F-15 more capable? Dunno. You tell me please. Viddy:

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=51255&p=376723&hilit=Beast+Mode#p376723



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blindpilot

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Unread post30 Apr 2018, 22:14

spazsinbad wrote:What happens when BEAST MODE is enabled for the F-35i - is the F-15 more capable? Dunno. You tell me please....


Well, by the time you hang on a few sensor/targeting pods, the Eagle's 23,000 lbs is not more than a beast mode F-35A. However, the F-15 can carry special munitions including the 5,000 lb GBU-28 bunker buster, I don't think there is any plans to rate the F-35 external stations to 5,000 lbs. They both carry about the same in SDB/500 lb/ etc. as far as that goes.

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Unread post30 Apr 2018, 22:36

blindpilot wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:I don't think there is any plans to rate the F-35 external stations to 5,000 lbs.


The two innermost wing pylons (one on each side) are supposed to be rated for 5,000 lb.
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Unread post30 Apr 2018, 22:37

Thanks 'BP & 'vanshilar''. http://www.gunnies.com.au/docs/F-35_weapons_roadmap.pdf Heheh beat me to it. :doh:

Download URL does not work now so the PDF is attached below. Graphic is on page 8 of 9.
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F-35weaponStationCapacity.jpg
F-35_weapons_roadmap 2012 pp9.pdf
(665.73 KiB) Downloaded 148 times
Last edited by spazsinbad on 30 Apr 2018, 22:55, edited 3 times in total.
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ricnunes

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Unread post30 Apr 2018, 22:41

blindpilot wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:What happens when BEAST MODE is enabled for the F-35i - is the F-15 more capable? Dunno. You tell me please....


Well, by the time you hang on a few sensor/targeting pods, the Eagle's 23,000 lbs is not more than a beast mode F-35A. However, the F-15 can carry special munitions including the 5,000 lb GBU-28 bunker buster, I don't think there is any plans to rate the F-35 external stations to 5,000 lbs. They both carry about the same in SDB/500 lb/ etc. as far as that goes.

FWIW
BP


According to the image below the inner wing pylons will be rated to 5000lb:

Image
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marsavian

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Unread post18 May 2018, 00:41

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... bu-448646/
Israel has proposed a deal to purchase additional Boeing F-15s, in a package that would also include upgrading the Israeli air force's existing I-model examples of the strike aircraft.

Worth almost $4 billion, the potential purchase would include 25 twin-engined F-15Is in an advanced configuration. The new version's airframe would have an extended lifespan and enhanced features including a large-area cockpit display.

The purchase of additional F-15s has recently gained priority for the Israeli air force's high command over ordering aircraft for a third squadron of Lockheed Martin F-35Is. The rationale for this decision is that while the F-35's stealth features are essential at the start of a conflict, the type will need be flown during later combat sorties in conjunction with assets capable of carrying a heavier weapons load.

Flight Fleets Analyzer records the Israeli air force as currently operating 25 F-15Is, aged between 18 and 20 years. These aircraft would be modified to the same enhanced standard as the proposed additional batch, if the deal goes ahead. Sources indicate that a purchase is likely to advance around the mid-way point of a 10-year military spending package recently approved by the USA.
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steve2267

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Unread post18 May 2018, 04:31

Wow. So 25 F-15I's trump 40+ F-35A's. Who woulda thunk it!? Not me...
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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Unread post18 May 2018, 04:42

You missed the point.

They'll buy more F-15Is "IF" the package also includes upgrading all the existing F-15Is to the new standard.

Given that they'll likely end up with 75+ F-35s, these would be a good VLBT (Very Large Bomb Truck) to follow the F-35 through the gap that the F-35's clear. The F-35's would also provide ESM and SA for the F-15s to hit their targets without ever seeing them for themselves.
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Unread post18 May 2018, 14:11

The telling part of that is this...

They WERE considering additional F-15I's and/or Silent Eagles. Both those options were floated. But as soon as they got their hands on the F-35, all they wanted was.... more F-35's. :)

I'm not sure how they're going to prioritize what it replaces first. It would obviously be their primary and most capable strike platform in any raid on the Iranian nuclear reactors. But it will also be their most effective air to air platform just by virtue of its VLO RCS. If anyone can dis-spell the myth the F-35 can't turn, accelerate, climb and run it's them. If they deem the F-35 superior to the F-15 in these metrics, there will no longer be any doubt it's the better air to air platform.

Yes, yes I know the EM diagrams already tell us this. But I used a very specific word for a reason, doubt. And there will continue to be doubt until it dominates air to air. Perception as they say, is reality. And we are still (to some extent) stuck with that reality...
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hythelday

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Unread post18 May 2018, 16:29

mixelflick wrote:The telling part of that is this...

They WERE considering additional F-15I's and/or Silent Eagles. Both those options were floated. But as soon as they got their hands on the F-35, all they wanted was.... more F-35's. :)

I'm not sure how they're going to prioritize what it replaces first. It would obviously be their primary and most capable strike platform in any raid on the Iranian nuclear reactors. But it will also be their most effective air to air platform just by virtue of its VLO RCS. If anyone can dis-spell the myth the F-35 can't turn, accelerate, climb and run it's them. If they deem the F-35 superior to the F-15 in these metrics, there will no longer be any doubt it's the better air to air platform.

Yes, yes I know the EM diagrams already tell us this. But I used a very specific word for a reason, doubt. And there will continue to be doubt until it dominates air to air. Perception as they say, is reality. And we are still (to some extent) stuck with that reality...


Well there aren't any F-35 EM diagrams in public domain, so we really can't tell, now can we? Also I do not believe F-35 can carry a couple of 5,000 pound bunker busters as far as Ra'am can.
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Unread post19 May 2018, 13:54

hythelday wrote:
mixelflick wrote:The telling part of that is this...

They WERE considering additional F-15I's and/or Silent Eagles. Both those options were floated. But as soon as they got their hands on the F-35, all they wanted was.... more F-35's. :)

I'm not sure how they're going to prioritize what it replaces first. It would obviously be their primary and most capable strike platform in any raid on the Iranian nuclear reactors. But it will also be their most effective air to air platform just by virtue of its VLO RCS. If anyone can dis-spell the myth the F-35 can't turn, accelerate, climb and run it's them. If they deem the F-35 superior to the F-15 in these metrics, there will no longer be any doubt it's the better air to air platform.

Yes, yes I know the EM diagrams already tell us this. But I used a very specific word for a reason, doubt. And there will continue to be doubt until it dominates air to air. Perception as they say, is reality. And we are still (to some extent) stuck with that reality...


Well there aren't any F-35 EM diagrams in public domain, so we really can't tell, now can we? Also I do not believe F-35 can carry a couple of 5,000 pound bunker busters as far as Ra'am can.


You may be right. Yet, there is something about the aircraft that they really, really like. All of their comments thus far have been exceedingly positive. "What the Americans have accomplished with this aircraft is very, very special. Shortly after takeoff the entire Middle East is displayed for you..". Something to that effect.

So it's likely the avionics/stealth, but who knows... it may be the kinematics too. I can understand why the EM diagrams are classified, so operational performance is our only clue. I suppose how and what role they deploy the aircraft in first will be indicative of its strengths. That too though, may remain classified..
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Unread post19 Jun 2018, 14:18

IAF F-35i (Adir) made emergency landing in Portsmouth air port (NH) yesterday afternoon.
The plane was together with another two F-35i's on delivery to Nevatim AFB, Israel
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/2018 ... p-at-pease
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Unread post19 Jun 2018, 14:26

First line of 'news' says FOUR whilst Three are described locationwise - so where was the fourth location?

"PORTSMOUTH -- Four of what appeared to be the newest models of the Air Force’s F-35 fighter jets made a stop at the Portsmouth International Airport at Pease on Monday.... Bruce Cultrera, the owner of Seacoast Helicopters, said he viewed two of the F-35s located in a hangar close to his, and another was on the runway…."
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