Finnish DefMin Interest in F-35s NOT Gripens

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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hythelday

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Unread post18 May 2018, 07:28

sunstersun wrote:If the Gripen loses in Finland, that plane is toast.


Do not agree. Gripen is not toast unless it loses in Sweden, which it will not. There is also Indian competition vs F-16, which can go either way really regardless of the planes' capabilities.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post18 May 2018, 08:53

hythelday wrote:
sunstersun wrote:If the Gripen loses in Finland, that plane is toast.


Do not agree. Gripen is not toast unless it loses in Sweden, which it will not. There is also Indian competition vs F-16, which can go either way really regardless of the planes' capabilities.


Agreed. It's going to become operational in Sweden, almost no matter what. E-model might get some small orders from smaller Air Forces just like original Gripen. Making a decent showing in Finnish competition would be beneficial for that.
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loke

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Unread post18 May 2018, 11:05

hornetfinn wrote:
hythelday wrote:
sunstersun wrote:If the Gripen loses in Finland, that plane is toast.


Do not agree. Gripen is not toast unless it loses in Sweden, which it will not. There is also Indian competition vs F-16, which can go either way really regardless of the planes' capabilities.


Agreed. It's going to become operational in Sweden, almost no matter what. E-model might get some small orders from smaller Air Forces just like original Gripen. Making a decent showing in Finnish competition would be beneficial for that.

I think there is also a very high likelyhood it becomes operational in Brazil. Brazil may open other doors in Latin America.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post18 May 2018, 12:06

loke wrote:I think there is also a very high likelyhood it becomes operational in Brazil. Brazil may open other doors in Latin America.


I agree with that. Those countries and current Gripen C users are most likely to buy Gripen E.
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magitsu

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Unread post01 Jun 2018, 13:17

Boeing seems to be trying their hardest. Two EA-18G's from VAQ-129 at Whidbey are to feature in the 100th anniversary air show of FiAF on June 16-17. F-35 will feature with a full sized mockup, like Gripen E. Rafale and Typhoon will fly, for the former it's the first time in a Finnish airshow. Last year there were two Super Hornets and Typhoon has featured for at least two years in a row.

https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense/statu ... 8042924032
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loke

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Unread post01 Jun 2018, 14:57

Boeing will try hard but the probability of F-35 winning this is still very very high (more than 99% imho).
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magitsu

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Unread post02 Jun 2018, 11:46

They have already test flown all of them, from the back seat obviously. For F-35 this obviously hasn't been possible. The Gripen one is also only the Gripen Demonstrator, which is somewhere between D and F but without extensive structural mods.
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magitsu

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Unread post17 Jun 2018, 17:00

Eurofighter consortium went balls deep in the 100th anniversary air show of FiAF yesterday and today.
They had seven Typhoons on display, from Italy, UK, Spain and Germany. More than other visiting fighters combined.

Growler made an appearance and some light maneuvers. Rafale dynamic duo put on a proper show, but none were in the ground display for visitors.

F-35 had a replica on display and the visitors were able to go and see the cockpit. Similar setup was available for Gripen E.

LM basically promised that in 2019 the actual F-35 will appear in Finland.

There was some unexpected action. On Thursday a French C-130J had some landing gear hydraulics problems, but backup systems turned out fine. On Saturday Finnish Hawk trainer had another landing gear worry because it blew a tire upon takeoff. It came down with flat right rear tire and veered to the grass in the right at the end of the runway. No major damage.

Typhoon reaped small PR benefits from Sundays surprise visit of the minister of defense, because there were so many of them in the background for pictures.
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steve2267

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Unread post17 Jun 2018, 17:13

magitsu wrote:Eurofighter consortium went balls deep in the 100th anniversary air show of FiAF yesterday and today.
They had seven Typhoons on display, from Italy, UK, Spain and Germany. More than other visiting fighters combined.


The Luftwaffe had a few flyable, eh?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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f4u7_corsair

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Unread post17 Jun 2018, 23:27

Rafale duo seemed to receive universal praise (although n°2 was a bit left behind in some runs, at least on Saturday). Too bad for the lack of ground display indeed, but on the very same weekend, 5 Rafale were mobilized for airshows (may I remind, for a single airforce).

As for the EF, it's good to have sitting ducks on the floor, but it's better to actually demonstrate something in the air. The EF alpha display was boring, as usual (not as much as the Growler's, though). Long repositioning runs, not doing much more than aileron rolls (helps gain 50 kts in a run while pretending you're doing some mad aerobatics!).

I jokingly asked about whether the EFs on display had the ESA radar as advertised on the gates in front of the planes. Mixed reactions... :roll: They also went balls deep in Helsingin Sanomat where they bought a full ad page.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post20 Jun 2018, 21:07

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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magitsu

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Unread post21 Jun 2018, 06:43

Another, slightly longer Flynn video
https://twitter.com/thef35/status/1007975022059802625

Video which has Flynn's Paris F-35 airshow and his 1987 F-18 show as picture in picture for comparison
https://twitter.com/thef35/status/1007678063096631297
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hornetfinn

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Unread post21 Jun 2018, 07:06

Thans magitsu, that latter video is very nice comparison of the two jets. Hornet is still very impressive jet in air show setting.
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magitsu

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Unread post21 Jun 2018, 07:12

Indeed it is. Here's an example, full routine from inside the cockpit. From last weekend.

https://www.facebook.com/Ilmavoimat/vid ... 537639217/
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magitsu

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Unread post06 Jul 2018, 09:27

Finland just announced this morning a really surprising pick for their new surface to surface missile. Israeli Aerospace Industries Gabriel. It will be fitted into the main surface combatants of the Navy, and will also serve on a truck mounted coastal launcher platform. That makes it the main weapon choice of the Finnish Navy, apart from sea mines (some very recent kit, but domestic one, there as well).

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... ssels.html

Possible fighter jet connection is not immediately obvious. Though they did send a RFI to Israel for the armament/sensors side of the fighter buy.
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