F-35 - The Italian Perspective

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talkitron

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Unread post29 Jun 2018, 17:25

The new Italian defense minister committed to the F-35 in this interview. She wants to stretch out the buy but not reduce the final numbers acquired. Perhaps the Lega's sympathies for Donald Trump and the domestic assembly line helped overrule the M5S party's opposition to the F-35. The article also mentions penalties if Italy cut its order.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... th-france/

Italy’s new defense minister commits to F-35, butts heads with France


Five Star officials promised last year to scrap Italy’s purchase of 90 F-35 fighters, but Trenta said the new government would not cut orders, even if it might stretch out its purchase plan.

“It’s a program we inherited and we have lots of questions; that is why we will evaluate the program considering the industrial and technology benefits for national interest, as we are the new government,” she said.

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pron

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Unread post06 Jul 2018, 21:14

News from Italy today.

ROME - The new Minister of Defence, Elisabetta Trenta, announced that Italy “will no longer be buying any F-35 planes” in an interview on the La7 Omnibus program on Friday.

“We have always been critics of the program and not afraid to hide it”, wrote the Minister on Facebook in a post where she shared the interview. “We will no longer invest in new fighter planes, and as for the contracts which have already been signed by the previous executive, we are carrying out a careful evaluation that exclusively takes into account the national interest.”

The only reason for keeping the current contracts would be because “we could find that terminating the contracts costs more than maintaining them. Around the F-35 there is technological activity, important research and of course employment which would be cut in turn. This is why we have to take care with our evaluation.”

http://www.italianinsider.it/?q=node/6962
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geforcerfx

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Unread post07 Jul 2018, 01:08

With that I bet Itally loses final production line.
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durahawk

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Unread post07 Jul 2018, 05:24

geforcerfx wrote:With that I bet Itally loses final production line.


This seems to be a fairly boneheaded move by Italy. They are holding a fairly large slice of the industrial offsets.

Their military is underfunded to begin with from the NATO perspective. This will make it even worse.
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juretrn

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Unread post07 Jul 2018, 08:36

By the time the morons that got elected are finally forced to step down (there's no way this government is making it through an entire term), there will be a need to do some major firefighting by a more reasonable government. "please let us keep the FACO? pretty please?"
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Dragon029

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Unread post07 Jul 2018, 09:12

Courtesy of an Italian dual-citizen I know; apparently she's been misquoted due to the ambiguity of the words she used:

https://www.nextquotidiano.it/elisabetta-trenta-f-35/

They haven't decided to cut orders yet (as of 23 hours ago, when she posted this on Facebook), but are instead performing an assessment of the program and will make a decision in the near future. She also acknowledged that cutting orders could cost them more than keeping the existing planned quantity.
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alex_f

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Unread post07 Jul 2018, 16:09

I too understood (speaking fluently Italian, btw) that they will not buy any further JSF. But they stick to the order they already placed. Would be too silly to cancel it now. On the other side, with this bunch of idiots in power right now, it wouldn't really surprise me if they did.
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geforcerfx

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Unread post07 Jul 2018, 16:10

So 15 A's and 15 B's, not much a force worth dealing with, I would look into converting the entire order to B's, at leas you have the one common type than can be used from your carrier and islands then.
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Unread post07 Jul 2018, 17:00

With that option ALL Bs costing more money I cannot see it happening - meanwhile perhaps a better ENGLISH translation:
Italy says won't buy more F-35 fighter jets, may cut existing order
07 Jul 2018 Reuters Staff

"ROME (Reuters) - Italy will not buy more Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jets and is considering whether to stick to the order to which it is already committed, Defence Minister Elisabetta Trenta said on Friday. Trenta comes from the anti-establishment 5-Star Movement which has always been critical of NATO member Italy’s order for 90 of the planes, saying the money could be better spent to boost welfare and help the sluggish economy.

“We won’t buy any more F-35s,” Trenta said in a television interview with private broadcaster La 7. “We are assessing what to do regarding the contracts already in place.”

She spelled out several reasons to be cautious, saying that “strong financial penalties” could mean that “scrapping the order could cost us more than maintaining it.” She also cited benefits in terms of technology and research in Italy linked to the planes, as well as jobs that would be lost....

...However, Trenta said she saw merit in stretching out the purchases in order to free up resources for investments in European defense projects. Some 5-Star officials said last year that Italy should cancel the order for the fighters altogether, but Trenta made clear she had reservations about this. “No one is hiding the fact we have always been critical ... In view of the existing contracts signed by the previous government, we are carrying out a careful assessment that exclusively considers the national interest,” she said...."

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ital ... SKBN1JW28M
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jakobs

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Unread post08 Jul 2018, 11:13

Isn't the current order for 90 planes?
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Unread post08 Jul 2018, 15:21

LM F-35 Fast Facts repeats numberwize what is in this PDF:
"...Planned Italian Procurement
According to the official U.S. government program of record, Italy intends to procure a total of 90 F-35s. Under
the current plan, Aeronautica Militare is programmed to receive 60 F-35A CTOLs and 15 F-35B STOVLs, while
Marina Militare is programmed to acquire 15 F-35B STOVLs...." https://www.f35.com/assets/uploads/docu ... nglish.pdf (1.3Mb)
Attachments
Particpants Manufacturing F-35 Italy Info TIF.jpg
Last edited by spazsinbad on 08 Jul 2018, 17:19, edited 1 time in total.
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geforcerfx

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Unread post08 Jul 2018, 16:26

jakobs wrote:Isn't the current order for 90 planes?


That was there procurement plan, but they have only ordered 30 so far (15 A 15 B). It's the same for most of the partners, the USA intends to buy over 2,000 F-35s between the services, but we haven't ordered them all yet.
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Dragon029

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Unread post09 Jul 2018, 03:57

alex_f wrote:I too understood (speaking fluently Italian, btw) that they will not buy any further JSF. But they stick to the order they already placed. Would be too silly to cancel it now. On the other side, with this bunch of idiots in power right now, it wouldn't really surprise me if they did.


The question though is what 'more' / 'further' means; more than the ~30 jets paid for or the 90 aircraft program of record? If she's talking about not buying any more than the ~30 ordered, then how does one cut back on existing orders? Sell existing jets / parts in production to other F-35 customers?
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Unread post09 Jul 2018, 04:41

Yep there are 'weasel' words indeed about such matters - Canada now has 88 F-35 aircraft on 'program of record'. sheesh.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post09 Jul 2018, 06:43

If, we had a dollar for every time Italy said they would leave the F-35 Program. All of the members could retire..... :wink:
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