F-35 and Airshows

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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aasm

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Unread post19 Oct 2018, 17:07

SpudmanWP wrote:Combine that with continuous enemy tracking via EODAS & the ability to attack with a HOBS missile and the F-35 should be able to get a shot off LONG before it's nose "on the enemy".


Excuse me, but if you are succesfully tracking a target at 360, with a hobs missile, what is the use of greater noise pointing authority? You got me lost there.
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gta4

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Unread post19 Oct 2018, 17:16

aasm wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:Combine that with continuous enemy tracking via EODAS & the ability to attack with a HOBS missile and the F-35 should be able to get a shot off LONG before it's nose "on the enemy".


Excuse me, but if you are succesfully tracking a target at 360, with a hobs missile, what is the use of greater noise pointing authority? You got me lost there.


Rely less on hobs and you get greater range Because missiles waste less energy on the initial hard turn.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post19 Oct 2018, 18:18

The missile will also have a higher speed & better pK if it spends less energy in the initial hard turn.
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Unread post19 Oct 2018, 20:00

Salute!

Don't get fixated on that initial bat turn. And do not forget the bandit's wingie.

Ubless you went past the merge just a tad to get some turning and launch parameter numbers, then you still have very high pitch rates and gees while trying to launch your cosmic missile. And you are likely outside of a good Pk shot. Funny, but the gun might be the best weapon here, as it is all-aspect and you can cut across the circle and get a snap shot.

Best stuff I ever saw was an initial turn toward the bandit six, then roll and go vertical.

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Unread post20 Oct 2018, 12:47

I can't wait for the first F-35A, B and C demo teams.

I've been going to airshows since I was 9 years old (1979). It's usually the same old legacy birds doing the same old stuff (although to be fair when it's once a year, it's still cool). Had the pleasure of seeing F-4's, F-106's, an F-14A/Snodgrass demo, F-15's, 16's and 18's in various iterations. I've even soon Voodoo's, F-104's and of course everyone's favorite, the F-22.

The F-35 I feel is unique, given we have a non-thrust vectoring jet that can pull off thrust vector like maneuvers. More than this, it comes in 3 flavors and each will give us something unique. I'm not sure if the demo can get more aggressive/better than we saw at Paris, but I'll be there in case it does.

Saw two A's on static at this year's Great New England Airshow. They appear fundamentally different than the legacy birds that were parked next to it. It certainly flies different and sounds different too. I really hope the demo teams continue to help its reputation, as to a great number of Americans - seeing is believing.

Excited for future possibilities...
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Unread post21 Oct 2018, 01:38

sferrin wrote:
lbk000 wrote:This is a backwards, revisionist perspective on things. Nose authority and its role in the merge was appreciated long before the F-35 was even pitched.

Did somebody say that it wasn't?

The implication gta was making is that somehow even the BFM book got written anew for the F-35. Well maybe it did, but playing angles doing oncecircle with the radius fighter is an elementary understanding in BFM -- and it's not part of ACM 2.0.

To cut it frankly, the issue I have here is that it's obvious that it's favoritism and confirmation bias at work. It's like suggesting that the letter "F" was instituted into the alphabet expressly to name the F-35.
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sferrin

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Unread post21 Oct 2018, 05:50

lbk000 wrote:
sferrin wrote:
lbk000 wrote:This is a backwards, revisionist perspective on things. Nose authority and its role in the merge was appreciated long before the F-35 was even pitched.

Did somebody say that it wasn't?

The implication gta was making is that somehow even the BFM book got written anew for the F-35. Well maybe it did, but playing angles doing oncecircle with the radius fighter is an elementary understanding in BFM -- and it's not part of ACM 2.0.

To cut it frankly, the issue I have here is that it's obvious that it's favoritism and confirmation bias at work. It's like suggesting that the letter "F" was instituted into the alphabet expressly to name the F-35.


No,things like Python 5 and AIM-9X Block II rewrote those rules.
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playloud

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Unread post07 Dec 2018, 22:01

Changes coming to F-35 demonstration team for 2019 air show season

“The past year’s demonstration was sort of like an ‘appetizer’ if you will,” said Capt. Andrew “Dojo” Olson, F-35 Demonstration Team pilot and commander. “The new profile this year will be the full ‘five-course meal’ showing fans everything this jet is capable of.”
...
“The show we’re going to bring to fans is unlike anything they’ve ever seen and I really believe it’s going to set a benchmark for the demonstrations performed by any airplane on the planet. I think it’s really going to impress people by finally showing off the full maneuvering envelope of the F-35A,” Olson said.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/lo ... xGntUhmCP/
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post07 Dec 2018, 22:08

holeee chit. I was already wowed by what we saw at Paris. How are they planning to top that?
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sferrin

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Unread post08 Dec 2018, 03:35

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:holeee chit. I was already wowed by what we saw at Paris. How are they planning to top that?


If it lives up to the claim they better put several people on suicide watch. :twisted:
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charlielima223

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Unread post08 Dec 2018, 05:30

I am wondering and can't wait to see what type of flight demonstration and maneuvers they intend to showcase to the public. I can only think it would be a more aggressive display that test pilot Billie Flynn flew at the Paris Airshow. Then again I think that demonstration was about 8 minutes long.

https://theaviationist.com/2018/12/05/u ... ow-season/

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ricnunes

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Unread post08 Dec 2018, 14:28

sferrin wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:holeee chit. I was already wowed by what we saw at Paris. How are they planning to top that?


If it lives up to the claim they better put several people on suicide watch. :twisted:


LOL! :mrgreen:

One the other hand, imagine all the benefits to our planet if Pierre Sprey, David Axe and others like them suddenly decided to commit suicide?? :devil:
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Unread post08 Dec 2018, 17:50

Better and more impressive than Paris? Oh my, they know how to stoke people's imaginations.

Here's my idea: Fly one of those SU-27's we have behind an F-35 and let's see an "over the shoulder" AMRAAM shot. That'll liven up the show :)

Srsly. what awaits? Paris seemed to be pushing its capabilities, at least as we now know them. Is it possible they're able to squeeze even better performance out of the jet? I can't recall if Paris flew with 3i or 3F? I think when it's all over, the F-35 will begin to approach the Raptor's performance, at least insofar as the post stall stuff is concerned. Will never match its power, but should be noticeably faster acceleration, role rate and instantaneous turn vs. the 4th gen stuff we usually see.

You really have to hand it to LM... the F-35's overall package insofar as lethality, range, maneuverability and mission flexibility is unprecedented. And if it gets the per unit cost down to $80 million, unbeatable.

I bought LM stock at around $90, thinking the F-35 would be an incredible success. It's been my best investment :)
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Unread post09 Dec 2018, 01:15

Also, for those that did analyse the video's?
Don't forget that the F-35 control surfaces logic "thinks" and deflects all available surfaces as if it's a delta at high energy, "G" and alfa.

When pulling very high G and alfa at speed? (High energy state?)
=> => Both horizontal tails, both vertical tails, AND and BOTH ailerons go UP. => As a delta would do it.
All surfaces are used to bring the nose UP and the tail DOWN.
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wrightwing

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Unread post09 Dec 2018, 02:57

mixelflick wrote:Better and more impressive than Paris? Oh my, they know how to stoke people's imaginations.

Here's my idea: Fly one of those SU-27's we have behind an F-35 and let's see an "over the shoulder" AMRAAM shot. That'll liven up the show :)

Srsly. what awaits? Paris seemed to be pushing its capabilities, at least as we now know them. Is it possible they're able to squeeze even better performance out of the jet? I can't recall if Paris flew with 3i or 3F? I think when it's all over, the F-35 will begin to approach the Raptor's performance, at least insofar as the post stall stuff is concerned. Will never match its power, but should be noticeably faster acceleration, role rate and instantaneous turn vs. the 4th gen stuff we usually see.

You really have to hand it to LM... the F-35's overall package insofar as lethality, range, maneuverability and mission flexibility is unprecedented. And if it gets the per unit cost down to $80 million, unbeatable.

I bought LM stock at around $90, thinking the F-35 would be an incredible success. It's been my best investment :)


Probably a lot more pedal turn/flat spin/power loop/tail slide stuff along with acceleration, verticals, sustained/minimum radius turns.
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