F-35 and Airshows

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

aasm

Banned

  • Posts: 77
  • Joined: 12 Aug 2018, 13:01
  • Warnings: 2

Unread post12 Aug 2018, 13:22

fbw wrote:
f-16adf wrote:Maybe the AF wants to keep everyone in the dark concerning this.

Doubt it will be a secret. Once the F-35 complete IOT&E and is allowed to do airshow demonstrations in the US, they’ll develop a demonstration program with recommended fuel load and be added to regulations manual. Afterall, the F-22 is in there.

On an aside, always found it interesting that USAF limits demonstrations to 7.5g with momentary over g for safety (well at least as of recently). Likely for airframe life. So much for YouTubers “9g turn” comparisons.


Afaik it is a FAA regulation no?
Offline

gta4

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 726
  • Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 19:10

Unread post18 Aug 2018, 13:23

F-35 can turn, can climb and can run pretty well:
Offline
User avatar

geforcerfx

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 815
  • Joined: 10 Feb 2014, 02:46

Unread post22 Aug 2018, 06:03

skip to 8:50


Offline
User avatar

jetblast16

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 499
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2004, 00:12
  • Location: USA

Unread post25 Aug 2018, 01:09

Bringing BLAST since 2004...(In my opinion)
Offline
User avatar

jetblast16

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 499
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2004, 00:12
  • Location: USA

Unread post25 Aug 2018, 01:32

Another thing I have noticed with the F-35A displays, but have been too lazy to post it, is that the pilots seem to go into mid-burner, almost to allow their gear to retract, before re-selecting max power. This may hint at the fact that they are flying with less than full fuel.
Bringing BLAST since 2004...(In my opinion)
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 21722
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -1

Unread post25 Aug 2018, 01:42

:devil: Jeepers that Major ate a lot of stringy string beans. How tall is he and how does he fit in the F-35A? :mrgreen:

I don't follow the comment immediately above. I recall the first test pilot to fly the F-35A AA-1 commenting that he had to REALLY PULL THE NOSE UP after takeoff to avoid overspeeding the undercarriage as he took off in full burner on first flight.

So I'll guess (if observation above correct) that pilots have less than full burner to avoid strangling the gear. Also they don't want to damage the only aircraft available most likely for subsequent shows. Now that makes sense to me. CARE Good.

:drool: VARGO MURADIAN aKs the LONGest Questions in the UNIVERSE. I admire the stringy stringbean major's patience. :roll:
Last edited by spazsinbad on 25 Aug 2018, 01:47, edited 2 times in total.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 7504
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post25 Aug 2018, 01:46

spazsinbad wrote::devil: Jeepers that Major ate a lot of stringy string beans. How tall is he and how does he fit in the F-35A? :mrgreen:

Or... the interviewer is a Hobbit :mrgreen:
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline
User avatar

Dragon029

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1275
  • Joined: 22 Dec 2014, 07:13

Unread post25 Aug 2018, 02:59

jetblast16 wrote:Another thing I have noticed with the F-35A displays, but have been too lazy to post it, is that the pilots seem to go into mid-burner, almost to allow their gear to retract, before re-selecting max power. This may hint at the fact that they are flying with less than full fuel.

Maybe, but for normal combat training sorties (where you're launching will full fuel) the jet is supposedly capable of reach 300 knots under mil power, with a 5 degree climb, before it reaches the end of the runway. Most landing gears (and IIRC the F-35 is no exception) are only rated to 250 knots, so they'd have to be careful and do what you describe to prevent overspeed conditions.

https://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/kampf ... en-i-f-35/
Offline

Meteor

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 220
  • Joined: 14 May 2007, 19:46
  • Location: Southlake, TX and West Yellowstone, MT

Unread post25 Aug 2018, 03:23

"Most landing gears (and IIRC the F-35 is no exception) are only rated to 250 knots, so they'd have to be careful and do what you describe to prevent overspeed conditions."

F-16 max landing gear speeds are 300 KIAS and .65 Mach, whichever is less.
F-4C/D, F-16A/B/C/D, 727, DC-10, MD-80, A321
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 21722
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -1

Unread post25 Aug 2018, 05:40

Translate Norwegian to English below: https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=
:doh: Printing the English page to PDF has got to be the most excrebabble thing in all of WWW so deal with it. :doh:
Landing round in F-35
06 Jan 2017 Morten Hanche

"...We usually take off in "MIL Power" - full engine without afterburner. The machine accelerates smoothly and steadily in MIL. With afterburner, acceleration is impressive, especially now lately when it has been "cold" here in Phoenix. When it comes time to lift the nose - to rotate - for departure, I have to move the stick back about halfway, relative to the rear stop. Nesa lifts slowly at first, but evenly and controllably, when the nose wheel "releases the roof" (in the ground). It is easy to point the plane to the desired attitude for attitude and there are no tendencies to overcorrect.

When the aircraft is in the air it is again clear that the machine has a powerful engine. We tend to climb by between five and 10 degree increments - which is quite steep. Even in "MIL power," the machine still accelerates well. As I pass the end of the runway, the plane has happily passed 300 knots. (The airplane climbs ready right after takeoff with a five-degree increase of 300 knots with less than half-power. In addition, full sliding with afterburner is described as 150% engine power). I had the pleasure of being the instructor on the first flight to a colleague with a background of hunter bombs. He said so: "I did not think performance like that was possible!" (See it in the context of my Marine Corps colleague who said that F-35A behaved like "Hornet, but with four engines ..." .)…"

Source: https://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/kampf ... en-i-f-35/
Attachments
Landing F-35 Norwegian English HANCHE PRN text readable.pdf
(1.56 MiB) Downloaded 81 times
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 21722
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -1

Unread post25 Aug 2018, 06:24

The RTF file - masquerading as a .DOC file - is attached & meanwhile the text is below: [RTF not allowed here]
Fighter Jets blog - Landing round in F-35 https://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/kampf ... en-i-f-35/
Posted by Morten Hanche, January 6, 2017

Norwegian-f-35-one approach This is a message for the real airplane, with a pretty technical angle (you are warned). I'm writing about the launch of the airplane and landing round with the F-35A. I want to show that the airplane is user-friendly in connection with departure and landing. These are relevant features when operating from winter smooth runways in Ørland, with stiff breeze from the southwest, but without a driver in the back seat that can save the situation. Sliding landing with the F-35A is something we also train, but I'll get back to the side.

I wrote a separate post about "cockpit" in F-35 earlier. The impression then and now is that the "office space" in the F-35 is simple and open. There are almost no switches compared to the F-16, and the cockpit is dominated by the big screen in the front. Startup of the airplane is similarly simple; move a couple of switches and a couple of touches on the screen, so it starts to wreck in the auxiliary motor that generates power to start the main engine. Because the cockpit is so simple, I spend some time checking that everything is ready before startup.

The rest of the startup is also simple. The various F-35A systems "talk" together over a computer network. That's why there's not really much to do for me. It's a bit like turning on your PC at home. It starts by itself, at its own pace, and you must be careful that the machine says "please wait". In F-16, the startup was a long series of tests I had to get started and switches I had to move on. In F-35 most of the time is spent waiting and monitoring. What I spend the most time is to configure the big screen as I wish. (Sometimes I feel "shivering" away from work - I should feel busier!) While the different systems start up, I also use the time to tighten myself in the launch kit. If one of the systems should hang a little, the solution is usually the same as for a PC: Turn it on and on again.

When it comes time to "tax" the machine, it is usually enough to release the brakes. There is so much drift in the engine at idle that it is not necessary to provide gas on the ground before the takeoff runway. F-35 is predictable on the ground. The suspension is soft and gives a lightweight feeling. At the same time, the spring is not so soft that the machine is felt winding. The nose wheel control has two "gears" with different exchanges. One for taxiing in medium speed and for departure, and one for maneuvering in and out of the parking lot; "High gain" gives me tight turns without helping the brake on one main wheel as well (differential braking, as is common in F-16).

One thing I've been up to is that the F-35 actually rolls straight forward as long as I do not ask the plane to swing. It might sound banal, but it's a nice improvement that makes it easier to do "admin work" in the cockpit while I'm taxiing, such as studying the flight map. (Operating a fighter plane is a bit like typing smartphone on a smartphone while driving in close traffic on the highway; it's a lot to distribute attention. It's good for the plane to both roll and fly straight ahead.) It also helps when the plane is picking up Speed ​​to ease off the runway: Keeping the plane at the center line requires only few and minor adjustments with the pedals, and I avoid hunting back and forth.

Something else about "ground ops". It's time to get in the air. We usually take off in "MIL Power" - full engine without afterburner. The machine accelerates smoothly and steadily in MIL. With afterburner, acceleration is impressive, especially now lately when it has been "cold" here in Phoenix. When it comes time to lift the nose - to rotate - for departure, I have to move the stick back about halfway, relative to the rear stop. Nesa lifts slowly at first, but evenly and controllably, when the nose wheel "releases the roof" (in the ground). It is easy to point the plane to the desired attitude for attitude and there are no tendencies to overcorrect.

When the aircraft is in the air it is again clear that the machine has a powerful engine. We tend to climb by between five and 10 degree increments - which is quite steep. Even in "MIL power," the machine still accelerates well. As I pass the end of the runway, the plane has happily passed 300 knots. (The airplane climbs ready right after takeoff with a five-degree increase of 300 knots with less than half-power. In addition, full sliding with afterburner is described as 150% engine power). I had the pleasure of being the instructor on the first flight to a colleague with a background of hunter bombs. He said so: "I did not think performance like that was possible!" (See it in the context of my Marine Corps colleague who said that F-35A behaved like "Hornet, but with four engines ..." .)

We spend little time practicing landing rounds. Much because we have so far checked out pilots with solid past experience, but also because the airplane is easy to land. We usually enter the landing round from "initial point" or "IP" - a reference point that is in the extension of the runway, about eight kilometers from the track end. The landing round is flying at 1500 feet and 300 knots on the Luke Air Force Base. The plane is well between 300 and 350 knots, and it requires only between 20% and 25% of engine power to keep this speed. As we are over the runway, we break down to "downwind". My technique is to let the throttle be in the same position (20-25%) throughout the swing. Then I end up with a distance of about one and a half miles to the runway and 200 knots of downwind speed. If you have checked a bit more motor in the turn of the downwind, remember to pull back once the turn is complete. If not, the F-35 "run" will leave again at high speed soon.

On the downwind I put down the wheels. There is no trim change to talk about as they come out - the airplane continues straight ahead. First of all, more wind noise and a slight slowdown are noted. A fairly solid "bump" is felt when the main wheels are completely out. «Final turn» is flying around 13 degrees attack angle - "Angle of Attack" (AOA) - and about eight degrees 'dumps' through the first part of the turn. Initially, I pull "throttle" a bit back to establish a 13 degree attack angle. 13 degrees AOA provides a light "buffet" on the plane - a shaking reminiscent of driving a gravel road.

When I am established at the correct angle of attack, I have to support a little more engine, depending on how heavy the machine is and how tight the swing I have set up for. If I wish, I can now select "Approach Power Compensator" (APC). The APC trims the airplane to a 13 degree attack angle and automatically adjusts the engine power to keep the attack angle constant ("autotrottle" and auto trim). With APC, it's easy to land F-35; sight at the beginning of the runway with three degree "dump" .... and that's really (you have to lift your nose a little while the plane passes the end of the runway). The APC is especially useful because it consistently sets the plane at the correct landing speed. This is an extra security for a fresh and (or) stressing flyer.

Another feature that makes the F-35 easy to land is called Integrated Direct Lift Control (IDLC). IDLC 'lives' in the aircraft's Vehicle Management Computer (VMC), as a piece of data code. It's VMC that keeps the airplane in the air. IDLC uses the flyer's "flaperons" (combined balancer and flap at the rear of the wing) in a somewhat unusual way in landing: If the flyer retracts, IDLC will ensure that both flaperons are angled downwards. The result is a quick and direct change of the plane's path upward - you feel the plane is raising right away, and without the nose on the plane has moved a lot. IDLC allows you to easily make quick and accurate landing corrections. IDLC combined with APC ("autothrottle") works perfectly super!

Back on the ground again, the F-35A puts down softly; The chassis and wheels are powerful, and absorb a little rough landing. After landing, it's good to "aerobrake" F-35A - keeping the nose of the runway in order to let the air flow brake the plane. At the same time it is clear that the F-35A is more stable and easy to handle on the ground than the F-16. (I think F-16 is quite winding, especially in heavy sidewind).

It is also clear that the F-35A is more futile than F-16 in "aerobic". It is possible to "aerobrake" an easy F-16 to well below 100 knots. Between 120 and 110 knots, the nose to the F-35A drops down by itself, even with a full back stitch. As the nose wheel hits the ground, the airplane moves itself to "flaperons" and tailors to help slow down. In addition, the nose wheel control engages automatically. The F-35A brakes take even and are powerful. It is easy to brake and control at the same time, and there is little or no tendency for the wheels to lock on dry ground.

All in all, the F-35A behaves very well when landing, especially in lateral winds - something that is good at Ørland, where I mean to remember that it blows in between. (I've got to try in 20 knots lateral wind so far and it was unproblematic. The F-35A feels like a freight train on rails, compared to F-16 in lateral wind.)

A little more about Norwegian weather conditions and lateral winds. The Defense F-35A is fitted with a brake screen, just like our F-16. The brake screen becomes important when we land on slippery runways, and especially with high weight. Landing the F-16 with a sliding lead and sidewind can be quite sporty. At first, it is noticed that the brake screen turns the nose on the F-16 towards the wind like a weather rack. Over time, the brake screen will pull the entire airplane out of the runway. To keep the airplane on the runway, F-16 pilots often have to use full raids on rorpedals. It is not uncommon to cut the entire brake screen to prevent the aircraft from getting into the ditch. Our F-16 does not have "forces" in all cases to handle powerful sidewind on smooth lead with a brake pad.

So far, we've just tested the F-35A with a simulator's brake screen. Simulated results should be taken with a pinch of salt. We made our first experiences with the F-35A and brake screen in late autumn 2013, in Lockheed Martin's most advanced simulator for studying flight features. The results were good. So good that we politely asked US engineers to check again that they had modeled all the effects from the brake screen. "The weather effect" I described with the F-16 was hardly noticeable, and it was not necessary to cut the screen to avoid the ditch. We tested twice as much sidewind as the F-16 is certified. Still, we managed to stay on the ice-skating rink. We will not put two lines below the test results, concluding that the F-35A manages X or Y button sidewind. I mean nevertheless, it's a good indication that the F-35A will handle a lot of sidewind, even with a brake pad. And that's good.

So what? With expensive education, should we handle a machine that requires a little work effort? I think there are several reasons to have a combat aircraft that is easy to take up in the air, easy to operate as a weapon platform and easy to get back to the ground again. When our freshest F-35 pilots come home to Norway in 2019, after graduating forever in Arizona, they meet a quite different and demanding reality in Ørland. The weather and the terrain in Norway make you KNOW what you are doing. With F-16 we soften this transition by exercising with the two-seater (F-16BM). Our future F-35 pilots will never have an instructor in a backseat, who can intervene and ward off a situation before it becomes dangerous. Nevertheless, I do not think it is irreconcilable to introduce our freshest pilots to fly in Norway in our single-meter F-35A. One important reason is that the pilots through Luke's education are drilled in flying "instrument flight" in the simulator. The new simulator center at Ørland will allow us to do the same type of training even before the first real flight mission at home. This way we can prepare ourselves to handle these "administrative" pages of a flight mission.

I know that we in the Armed Forces will operate the airplane to the boundaries with regard to slippery ground, side wind and poor visibility. Therefore it's just as important that the airplane is simple and predictable to fly - and that's it! Because the machine is simple and airy, and in addition has a good autopilot, the airplane can spend more time planning over time and preparing for what's going to happen, such as configuring the plane for an instrument flight.

Outside the landing round, the F-35 is a weapon platform. The fact that the machine is easy to operate allows the pilot to concentrate more on the tactical work, and less about actually keeping the machine in the air. We get more tactical "currency" out of a machine that's easy to fly. Finally, this is about solving an assignment as effectively as possible while safeguarding security; both to take care of life and to take care of expensive materials. Therefore, it is important that the F-35 is forgiving, predictable and easy to handle on the ground, in the landing round and in the air on missions."

Source: Gaga Translate: https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=
Attachments
Fighter Jets blog - Landing round in F-35 HANCHE text translation.doc
(14.05 KiB) Downloaded 74 times
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 21722
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -1

Unread post25 Aug 2018, 06:44

Earlier ALTERNATE Norskman to Engrishman TRANSLAT PDF attached below (must be somewhere else on this forum also).

FRUM: https://translate.google.com/translate? ... en-i-f-35/

Here we go Here we go Here we go: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=52507&p=359680&hilit=landingsrunden#p359680 ('Dragon029')

OOPs - DOC file wot is relly an RTF file attached below now from above translat today.
Attachments
Landing Circuit Round F-35 HANCHE PRN pp6.pdf
(96.73 KiB) Downloaded 80 times
Fighter Jets blog - Landing round in F-35 HANCHE text translation 25aug2018.doc
(14.05 KiB) Downloaded 97 times
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

jetblast16

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 499
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2004, 00:12
  • Location: USA

Unread post25 Aug 2018, 15:27

VARGO MURADIAN aKs the LONGest Questions in the UNIVERSE.


He's passionate and thorough :wink: I like when he challenges some of his interviewees haha
Bringing BLAST since 2004...(In my opinion)
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 21722
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -1

Unread post26 Aug 2018, 17:39

PHOTO: CHICAGO, IL, UNITED STATES[/b] https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4668300/ ... water-show
19 Aug 2018 Photo by Airman 1st Class Alexander Cook, 56th Fighter Wing Public Affairs

"Capt. Andrew “Dojo” Olson, F-35 Heritage Flight Team pilot and commander performs a high-speed pass in an F-35A Lightning II over Lake Michigan during the Chicago Air and Water Show in Chicago, Illinois, Aug. 19, 2018. The F-35A Lightning II is equipped with the largest single engine motor ever built and is capable of reaching speeds of up to 1,200 miles per hour. (U.S. Air Force photo by Airman 1st Class Alexander Cook)" https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/4668300 (JPG 10.3Mb)
Attachments
F-35AchicagoVAPOURconeAug2018.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

jetblast16

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 499
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2004, 00:12
  • Location: USA

Unread post30 Aug 2018, 05:37

Bringing BLAST since 2004...(In my opinion)
PreviousNext

Return to General F-35 Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests