Can the F-22 supercruise at Mach 1.8?

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ericchase88

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Unread post20 Jan 2013, 14:41

I know that the supercruise speed of the F-22 is classified, but Jay Miller's book claims that it's 1.82. That is the highest claimed supercruise speed that I've seen so far. Is that book a reliable source of information?
Last edited by ericchase88 on 21 Jan 2013, 00:27, edited 1 time in total.
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count_to_10

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Unread post20 Jan 2013, 16:35

There is probably some ambiguity about what "super-cruise speed" means. Normally, I think "cruise speed" is the speed at witch range is maximized, but "super-cruise speed" might mean maximum supersonic speed maintainable without afterburner.
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.
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ericchase88

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Unread post21 Jan 2013, 00:52

The highest speed from an official source that I've seen is Mach 1.78, which is 0.04 Mach under Jay Miller's estimate. I suppose that this isn't really important from an operational standpoint, but out of curiosity, how much does drag increase from M 1.78 to M 1.8 or M 1.82? Does that 0.04 M make a big difference in drag?
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popcorn

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Unread post21 Jan 2013, 02:01

Getting precise figures is improbable but it seems safe to say that the Raptor is the gold standard when it comes to SC and is heads and shoulders above anything else, now and for the foreseeable future.
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F16VIPER

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Unread post21 Jan 2013, 03:28

Do Raptor drivers use supercruise during training or is it a rare occurrence.
If yes, does it mean they are clocking up substantial supersonic time in the plane.
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Unread post21 Jan 2013, 04:08

F16VIPER wrote:Do Raptor drivers use supercruise during training or is it a rare occurrence.
If yes, does it mean they are clocking up substantial supersonic time in the plane.

I'm pretty sure they do. Gen. Jumper went Mach 1.8 off the coast of FL during a cross country flight, according to a public statement.

The training flight that resulted in a fatal crash in AK, was flying at Mach 1.5+ during the mission, according to the mishap report.

One of the bigger limits is the lack of training areas where they are allowed to go supersonic.
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Unread post21 Jan 2013, 09:00

So setting the throttle at MIL Power results in supercruise?
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linkomart

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Unread post21 Jan 2013, 11:33

popcorn wrote:Getting precise figures is improbable but it seems safe to say that the Raptor is the gold standard when it comes to SC and is heads and shoulders above anything else, now and for the foreseeable future.


....among fighters. The best supercruiser that I know of is the concorde, M=2, the limit beeing structure temperature.

The M=1.8 is plausible if you fly on a cold day.
L-M have onepointsevensomething as an oficcial max supercruise speed, and if you get to some cold, oxygen rich air it can probably do a little bit more.

my 5 cent
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Unread post21 Jan 2013, 13:25

linkomart wrote:
popcorn wrote:Getting precise figures is improbable but it seems safe to say that the Raptor is the gold standard when it comes to SC and is heads and shoulders above anything else, now and for the foreseeable future.


....among fighters. The best supercruiser that I know of is the concorde, M=2, the limit beeing structure temperature.



Concorde requires afterburners to achieve and sustain M2.
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linkomart

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Unread post21 Jan 2013, 13:36

nope, you are thinking about the TU-144. Concorde used afterburners to get past the sound barrier up to M=1.2 IIRC, but closed them off for and accelerated up to M=2 or so on "military" (is there another term in english for max power without afterburner?) only. IIRC there were a temperature sensor on the nose that set the speed limit.
If you go to Duxford you can see one of the prototypes and if you are lucky you get a guide that were involved in the development of the plane. I was.

edit: according to wiki they used the burners up to M=1.7.

my 5 cent.
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popcorn

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Unread post21 Jan 2013, 14:05

linkomart wrote:nope, you are thinking about the TU-144. Concorde used afterburners to get past the sound barrier up to M=1.2 IIRC, but closed them off for and accelerated up to M=2 or so on "military" (is there another term in english for max power without afterburner?) only. IIRC there were a temperature sensor on the nose that set the speed limit.
If you go to Duxford you can see one of the prototypes and if you are lucky you get a guide that were involved in the development of the plane. I was.

edit: according to wiki they used the burners up to M=1.7.

my 5 cent.

I stand corrected.
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BELA

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Unread post22 Jan 2013, 08:03

"
....among fighters. The best supercruiser that I know of is the concorde, M=2, the limit beeing structure temperature.

The M=1.8 is plausible if you fly on a cold day.
L-M have onepointsevensomething as an oficcial max supercruise speed, and if you get to some cold, oxygen rich air it can probably do a little bit more. "



The Concorde isn't among fighters.
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linkomart

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Unread post22 Jan 2013, 10:31

No, but as I said Concorde is the best supercruiser IMHO.
F-22 is the best supercruiser among fighters.

my opinion.
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stobiewan

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Unread post22 Jan 2013, 14:17

linkomart wrote:No, but as I said Concorde is the best supercruiser IMHO.
F-22 is the best supercruiser among fighters.

my opinion.


Not quite getting the idea here, Concorde could cruise at M1.7 off the burners, F22 seems to be credited with running at M1.78 or so, and can go supersonic without afterburner - surely F22 takes the title in all fields ?
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linkomart

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Unread post22 Jan 2013, 14:41

Your statement seems to be incorrect.
As I've said in earlier comments, the Concord cruises at M=2 circa depending on the outside temperature. (ltiite faster at low tempertures, little slower at high)

The Concord uses the Burners (for takeoff and) to get trough the transonic regime. It shuts off the burners at M=1.7 and accelerates up to top speed on military power (is there a better name, anyone?).

Go to wiki or google for more details.

Agree that F-22 is according to L-M going in M=1.7something IIRC.

But in my book M=2 transatlantic is better than M=1.7-1.8 for a 150 nm or so range.
But maybe thats just my opinion.......
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