F-16I and Iran

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privatepilot42

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Unread post18 Nov 2012, 19:30

Hi people

Please indulge this old PP and either try and answer my question or call me an idiot for my post :-)

Are the New" Israeli F 16 "Storms" capable of striking deep into Eastern Iran (where the Nuke facilities are supposed to be located) and return un tanked?

To be most clear; Are they capable of carrying ordnance heavy enough to reach the buried nuclear facilities and make the R/T sortie without tanker support and land back in Israel?
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thegroundeffect

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Unread post19 Nov 2012, 00:22

no
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1st503rdsgt

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Unread post19 Nov 2012, 02:10

no
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dragracingmaniac

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Unread post19 Nov 2012, 04:05

no
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guy@rdaf.dk

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Unread post19 Nov 2012, 10:07

Why not? I believe that it depends...

Take a look at this picture.

http://f-16.net/gallery_item98368.html

This picture was released 4 years ago during the last conflict in Gaza. The purpose of the picture was not to show the Hamas in Gaza that the Israelis can fly a jet with 20000 lbs. of fuel (and thereby long endurance/range) and 4000 lbs. of bombs from a base 15 minutes away......

No, it was a clear message to Iran!

Now, assuming that the jet is only loaded with 2 GBU-31 JDAM's with the BLU-109 warhead, no TGP or other stuff on the intake, 2 to 4 missiles for self protection, then taken to altitude over Israel and air-refueled before pushing eastbound flying a high-high-high profile and jettisoning the external tanks as they empty, I think it might be possible to fly the distance (1800km to the central part of Iran , and 1800km back). I remind you that they flew for 3 hours with 2 x 2000 lbs. bombs in a low-low-high profile during the strike on Iraq in the early 80'ies. Those planes did only have 13500 lbs. of fuel, and an older (and less efficient) engine.

The real question is if the BLU-109 can do the job on all the targets. I don't think so. The IAF does not have larger penetrator warheads then the BLU-109. Furthermore, they will probably have to bring an EW platform along the entire distance, if they want the element of surprise (especially since they have to fly a high-high-high profile).

Just my opinion...
Greetings to you all at the NSA and everybody else who is reading this on ECHELON.
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vilters

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Unread post19 Nov 2012, 11:45

Everybody will say NO, until someone does it.
Rule ONE; never underestimate what can be done.

If required?
On the return leg? Eject over friendly teritory.

Solutions to BIG problems are usually pretty easy.
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ygbsm

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Unread post19 Nov 2012, 17:40

vilters wrote:On the return leg? Eject over friendly teritory.


What???? The only pilots who would be ordered to do that (and willing) would be if their nation would be destroyed otherwise...

Uh oh....
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vilters

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Unread post19 Nov 2012, 21:42

Compare 4 jets to a nuke strike on your family and nation.
Compare 8 jets.
Compare 12 jets.
Compare 24 jets.
Compare 36 jets.
Compare 64 jets.
Compare 128 jets.

How many jets are you prepared to send, to avoid a nuke strike on your whole family and nation??
But?
If you are too late?
The amount of jets you did NOT use does not matter any more.

But?? What is the problem?
USA has full air superiority over IRAK and Kuweit.
Land, refuel and rearm.
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neurotech

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Unread post19 Nov 2012, 23:39

I doubt a F-16I could "unrefueled" make it there and back. Having said that, They recently developed CFTs that had refueling probe, so theoretically, they could Buddy-Refuel of a fighter jet for added range, without risking a large tanker to hostile fire.

The F-15I has a longer range... and could also use a probe to refuel.
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madrat

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Unread post20 Nov 2012, 00:46

I think the best option is to use a tanker with multiple hoses to tow the aircraft most of the way, let them perform the mission, then reconnect on the return leg home. Never underestimate the persistence of the Israeli threatened with annihilation. He will serve his god and country unto death if necessary to keep the homeland safe.
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bigjku

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Unread post20 Nov 2012, 03:37

Even if they can get there I am not sure it will matter. Unless they go nuclear I don't think they can carry enough of the right weaponry to get the job done. I also think they would suffer pretty badly against the air defense system in Iran. I think they have the aircraft to do one job or another but the big problem is that they would have to do both in one sortie and I don't think they can move the iron they need to to get the job done.
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1st503rdsgt

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Unread post20 Nov 2012, 03:57

madrat wrote:I think the best option is to use a tanker with multiple hoses to tow the aircraft most of the way, let them perform the mission, then reconnect on the return leg home. Never underestimate the persistence of the Israeli threatened with annihilation. He will serve his god and country unto death if necessary to keep the homeland safe.

"Suicide" nuclear missions are nothing new. Anyone who's read Chuck Yeager's autobiography knows this. He talked at some length about how the USAF intended to use F-86s on one-way missions into Warsaw-pact territory, giving the pilots Dr. Strangeloveish training and other things to help them hike their way home after running out of fuel. "Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5qqfsQGYus
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jammer2

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Unread post20 Nov 2012, 04:01

guy@rdaf.dk wrote:Now, assuming that the jet is only loaded with 2 GBU-31 JDAM's with the BLU-109 warhead, no TGP or other stuff on the intake, 2 to 4 missiles for self protection, then taken to altitude over Israel and air-refueled before pushing eastbound flying a high-high-high profile and jettisoning the external tanks as they empty, I think it might be possible to fly the distance (1800km to the central part of Iran , and 1800km back). I remind you that they flew for 3 hours with 2 x 2000 lbs. bombs in a low-low-high profile during the strike on Iraq in the early 80'ies. Those planes did only have 13500 lbs. of fuel, and an older (and less efficient) engine.

The real question is if the BLU-109 can do the job on all the targets. I don't think so. The IAF does not have larger penetrator warheads then the BLU-109. Furthermore, they will probably have to bring an EW platform along the entire distance, if they want the element of surprise (especially since they have to fly a high-high-high profile).

Just my opinion...



Iran sends its thanks for your opinions regarding Israeli Air Force tactics and weaponry. They'd also like to know the most likely flight paths, number of aircraft, and estimated day/time of attack. Names and backgrounds of the pilots would greatly help too.
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Prinz_Eugn

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Unread post20 Nov 2012, 05:04

jammer2 wrote:
guy@rdaf.dk wrote:Now, assuming that the jet is only loaded with 2 GBU-31 JDAM's with the BLU-109 warhead, no TGP or other stuff on the intake, 2 to 4 missiles for self protection, then taken to altitude over Israel and air-refueled before pushing eastbound flying a high-high-high profile and jettisoning the external tanks as they empty, I think it might be possible to fly the distance (1800km to the central part of Iran , and 1800km back). I remind you that they flew for 3 hours with 2 x 2000 lbs. bombs in a low-low-high profile during the strike on Iraq in the early 80'ies. Those planes did only have 13500 lbs. of fuel, and an older (and less efficient) engine.

The real question is if the BLU-109 can do the job on all the targets. I don't think so. The IAF does not have larger penetrator warheads then the BLU-109. Furthermore, they will probably have to bring an EW platform along the entire distance, if they want the element of surprise (especially since they have to fly a high-high-high profile).

Just my opinion...



Iran sends its thanks for your opinions regarding Israeli Air Force tactics and weaponry. They'd also like to know the most likely flight paths, number of aircraft, and estimated day/time of attack. Names and backgrounds of the pilots would greatly help too.


Really? Nothing he said is really sensitive at all, or above basic reasoning for any interested amateur.
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neurotech

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Unread post20 Nov 2012, 05:17

At the moment, the US is staying out of this one. but we have F-22s with JDAMs & SDBs.. If things really heat up. we may see our $350m Raptors in combat.
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