F-16 getting SDB by way of...

This particular forum is for everything related to F-16 Armament, fuel tanks, and other stores.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

SpudmanWP

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 4633
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post22 Oct 2012, 21:12

The M6.1+ tapes that are headed to the F-16 carry a nice present besides SDB and AIM-120D... UAI.

http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y201 ... B_2013.pdf

Major new capabilities currently being integrated via M-tapes include GPS inertial navigation set (GPS/INS) updates to improve targeting accuracy and GPS security, EGBU-12 (laser/GPS guided bomb), Mode 5 identification friend or foe (IFF), SDB with UAI, AIM-120D, joint mission planning system (JMPS), and Alpha II Lite.


http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.asp ... 97.xml&p=1

An initial fielding recommendation for the F-16 and SDB is expected by the end of next month, according to officials at the Air Armament Center at Eglin AFB, Fla. This will take place as part of the M6.1+ operational flight profile release for the F-16 software.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline
User avatar

Gums

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1581
  • Joined: 16 Dec 2003, 17:26

Unread post16 Nov 2012, 00:49

Salute!

@ Spud: nope. I left the business over ten years ago, but only have scuttlebutt ( unclassified, and such) to stay up with stuff.

Even the civil service "engineers for life" I worked with are all retired now.

Gums sends..

P.S. FOR ALL!!!! The difference between now and the late 80's is the amount of software and memory. Back in the 80's we argued about a few hundred bytes of code in the Viper system. You know, tradeoffs for this and that to get a new feature and get rid of stuff we didn't need/want. Think about 256 Kbytes and even less RAM.
Gums
Viper pilot '79
"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
Offline

fiskerwad

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 753
  • Joined: 13 Nov 2004, 19:43
  • Location: 76101

Unread post16 Nov 2012, 01:40

Gums wrote:Salute!

@ Spud: nope. I left the business over ten years ago, but only have scuttlebutt ( unclassified, and such) to stay up with stuff.

Even the civil service "engineers for life" I worked with are all retired now.

Gums sends..

P.S. FOR ALL!!!! The difference between now and the late 80's is the amount of software and memory. Back in the 80's we argued about a few hundred bytes of code in the Viper system. You know, tradeoffs for this and that to get a new feature and get rid of stuff we didn't need/want. Think about 256 Kbytes and even less RAM.


Oh the pain of remembering. :-)
The Fire Control Computer (FCC) used CORE MEMORY, 64Kbytes of it. And we were still struggling with "reserve memory" specs in the late '90s.
fisk
Mipple?
Offline

SpudmanWP

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 4633
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post16 Nov 2012, 17:37

hehe, my kid's cheap freebie flip-phone could run rings round an 80's computer. :)
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline

Buffalo

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 34
  • Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 16:32

Unread post17 Nov 2012, 22:07

We've gone through multiple FCC/MMC upgrades through the years. The Electric Jet is still a coal fired, steam driven technology, but we've polished the browness to a high gloss sheen. We'll see how UAI pans out - it looked great in Powerpoint, but absorbed an astonishing amount of code base to implement and provides a half assed path for updating the PVI. I'll be convinced when the Block 50 straps on a new weapon out of the OFP development cycle.
Offline

SpudmanWP

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 4633
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post18 Nov 2012, 04:26

I'll be convinced when the Block 50 straps on a new weapon out of the OFP development cycle.
It just did or did you miss the SDB?

Here some UAI highlights:

–F-15E/LJDAM out-of-cycle integration done in 3 months/$2.5M vice normal 3-5 years for OFP and $20-25M!
–100% F-15E Strike Eagles = UAI
–Within 3+ years, all F-16 40/50 (M6/6+) to include 287 EPAF/NATO jets = UAI
–JSF
–All JDAM variants = UAI
–JASSM: UAI fielding w/in year
–SDB I/II: UAI/to be UAI
–The US Army is testing UAI for UAVs.

Turkey is also coding their new Air-Launched cruise missile for UAI.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline

Buffalo

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 34
  • Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 16:32

Unread post19 Nov 2012, 00:24

Spud. M6.1 hasn't fielded yet and yes does have UAI SDB/LJDAM, hence my comment about waiting to see if it's worth the effort for when the Block 50 gets an out of cycle weapon. It hasn't happened yet, so standing by to see the savings in schedule/costs. Just a skeptic for this airframe.

I suppose the SDB II would be a candidate, but there's a lot of extra baggage there - we'll see how that goes.

Didn't hear about the F-15, so I'll conditionally give you that. However, comma, I don't think you can use the cost of the OFP development cycle for a single candidate. Not sure they break out the cost per candidate and if you're telling me that was be the cost of the LJDAM candidate for the Mudhen, then I need to buy more Boeing stock. Also not sure I'd claim the LJDAM as a touchdown since we've been loading it as a GBU38...a better DLZ and the advantage of some of the weapon settings, but no great leap of capability.

Having all the JDAM variants as UAI after all the airframes have already spent the integration costs is also kind of closing the barn door sort of advocacy.

I think the F-35 is the perfect jet for this process. Put it in on the ground floor. I haven't heard anything about the F-22, but since they have the SDB already, we'll see if they can afford it.

Over.
Offline

SpudmanWP

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 4633
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post19 Nov 2012, 00:58

m6.1 tapes are in their final stage before release. The test F-16s that have it are dropping SDB using UAI (and not dedicated code).

As far as if UAI will save money, that question has been answered multiple times (USAF Quote:"F-15E/LJDAM out-of-cycle integration done in 3 months/$2.5M vice normal 3-5 years for OFP and $20-25M!" ). The same would apply to every sub-type of JDAM that comes down the pipe.

btw, All costs in my post are direct USAF quotes and not my interpretation of them.

after all the airframes have already spent the integration costs
That's the rub. Each airframe & software build have to spend their own integration money over and over again. The only things that are even remotely shared are separation test costs. For instance, after the F-16 gets UAI, it can also drop SDB2 within a few months of it becoming available. How many years will it be before the F-22 gets SDB2 (and it already has SDB1)?

Here is a good article on UAI (PDF page 23)

http://www.dsp.dla.mil/app_uil/content/ ... -07-05.pdf

Just so you get an idea of what features are part of each Blk of UAI, here are the last 4 years of UAI Budget schedules.

Image

Image

Image

Image
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline

Buffalo

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 34
  • Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 16:32

Unread post19 Nov 2012, 05:43

Sorry, I've not done a good job of explaining my point. The Block 50 could have gone the hard code SDB path in M6 for a similar cost or having seen the Block 30 integration, probably a lot less.

I understand the potential for savings and schedule. Its a great thing for the JSF. Just not convinced that the payback for the F-16 Block 50 is going to be realized within a reasonable time frame (5-7 years).

Out.
Offline

SpudmanWP

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 4633
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post19 Nov 2012, 06:41

If you compare the cost of UAI vs normal SDB integration, they are likely similar if not more for the UAI. However, you are not just getting SDB, but all weapons that have a UAI spec. Currently that is SDB, all JDAM/LJDAM varients, and JASSM soon). The only thing required for each airframe is separation tests. These have a low cost & time requirement.

Additional cost savings come with the follow-on weapons.

Imagine the normal cost of integration for all the JDAM variants, SDB2, 3, etc (there will be more), JAGM, and all the other new weapons that will be coming out for the next 10-20 years (the length of time that the F-16 will be in operation).

Not only will air-to-air weapons be coming up soon for UAI, but also pods.

btw, Cost savings for UAI integration have been demonstrated over and over again. where a new weapon would normally take years (from availability to operation), it now takes months. Where it used to take tens of millions, it now takes less than 3.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline

madrat

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1021
  • Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 03:12

Unread post20 Nov 2012, 00:19

The F-16 fleet is sufficient size that payback will be far quicker than 5-7 years. We're talking filling theoretical gaps left by late IOC of the F-35 with this roll out AND taking more load off the present SDB platforms. Spread the workload out among the fleet to eek out every little extra life you can.

Return to F-16 Armament & Stores

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests