F-35B (Non-US) Pocket Carriers

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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madrat

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Unread post12 Apr 2019, 15:19

I personally think it will be much more important for mountainous countries to disperse assets for defense. It could conceivably be more important than the -A to countries like Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Austria, and Greece. It could even be more important to non-members like Switzerland.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post12 Apr 2019, 15:27

spazsinbad wrote:
loke wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Via E-mail TRIESTE due to be launched at end of May whilst graphic is as is.... (NOTE JPALS installed)

Thanks -- Trieste looks very impressive. How many F-35B will it be able to carry? The 'B is IMHO turning out to become very important to Europe -- it will make it possible for medium-sized EU countries to have a very powerful carrier capacity.

Not sure whilst there is a possibility that later with a ski jump (which may be installed during a refit) more will be known.

As we can see the decision to embark F-35Bs aboard TRIESTE will be made later.
All the New Aircraft Carriers That Are Under Construction
24 Jan 2018 Kyle Mizokami

"...In 2017, Italian defense contractor Fincantieri began construction of the Trieste, a new amphibious assault ship. Similar to the America-class amphibious ships but at 803 feet long smaller than its U.S. Navy counterparts, Trieste will be designed to transport and land a battalion of Italy’s San Marco marine regiment. Trieste is designed to carry transport helicopters and a decision will be made later on whether or not to accommodate the F-35B Joint Strike Fighter. Italy already has one carrier, the Cavour, which will embark the F-35B…."

Source: https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... ndup-2018/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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jurryaany

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Unread post17 Apr 2019, 01:35

Roughly a month ago, Singapore released its armed forces roadmap for 2030. It includes an outline of what it calls the "Joint Multi Mission Ship" (JMMS).

The image implies the ship to have a landing deck aft, but a forward one as well, possibly indicating one continuous deck. A utility helicopter hovers near the aft deck, and a CH-47 near the front, further implying a continuous deck.

Source:
https://www.janes.com/article/87010/sin ... on-roadmap

In addition, the F-35 is also part of the roadmap, and Singapore is speculated to be procuring a number of these after the initial four are evaluated. The variant was not specified, and could well include the F-35B.

Singapore, with its small landmass and limited airfields, could have use for the B variant, and it would be unsurprising if an order for these were placed in the near future. Furthermore, its limited land assets would make the case for carrier-based F-35s stronger as well.

Not much is known about the JMMS project at its current stage beyond the released silhouette. The design may well change, potentially becoming more (or less) accommodating to the F-35B. Only time will tell.

My post here is mostly speculative and possibly unrealistic, but I found it interesting enough to share either way.
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Unread post17 Apr 2019, 01:49

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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weasel1962

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Unread post17 Apr 2019, 03:19

There are strong reasons for sea basing in Singapore's case. Since Habibie/Wahid + Mahathir cooperation in the late 1990s, the weaponisation of air space restriction particularly in the use (or non-use) of FIR have been planned by both neighbors. The initial retirement of Mahathir in 2003 with the election of Megawati followed by Yudhoyono as Indonesian presidents in 2014 saw the issues dying down. However the election of Jokowi in 2014, the issue of FIR again crept up in 2015. Since re-election of Mahathir in 2018, airspace over Pasir Gudang was restricted to prevent flights into Seletar. The air and sea hubs provides a significant chunk of Singapore's economy and has been the target of certain neighbors. The intent is to keep Singapore as as small a red dot as they can achieve. Blockades are not new e.g. see Qatar.

People who do not stay in the region may view China as a threat. The view from Singapore is different. Seen with the above lens, sea basing for Singapore military aviation is imho inevitable.
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steve2267

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Unread post17 Apr 2019, 13:40

weasel1962 wrote:There are strong reasons for sea basing in Singapore's case. Since Habibie/Wahid + Mahathir cooperation in the late 1990s, the weaponisation of air space restriction particularly in the use (or non-use) of FIR have been planned by both neighbors. The initial retirement of Mahathir in 2003 with the election of Megawati followed by Yudhoyono as Indonesian presidents in 2014 saw the issues dying down. However the election of Jokowi in 2014, the issue of FIR again crept up in 2015. Since re-election of Mahathir in 2018, airspace over Pasir Gudang was restricted to prevent flights into Seletar. The air and sea hubs provides a significant chunk of Singapore's economy and has been the target of certain neighbors. The intent is to keep Singapore as as small a red dot as they can achieve. Blockades are not new e.g. see Qatar.

People who do not stay in the region may view China as a threat. The view from Singapore is different. Seen with the above lens, sea basing for Singapore military aviation is imho inevitable.


I thought I raised this issue earlier, and the response was that Singapore has no where near the personnel required to man a pocket carrier?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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weasel1962

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Unread post17 Apr 2019, 14:21

QE CV definitely no. LHD, depends on number of crew. Mistral operates with just a crew of 160. Juan Carlos 243. If replace 1 JMMS for every 2 existing endurance lpds, the bridge in personnel gap is not that wide.
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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 19:25

Chance for some for a looksee - IMDEX ASIA in Singapore 14-16 May 2019. They will talk ONLY ABOUT HELOS of course. :doh:
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Unread post25 Apr 2019, 23:16

Some UNOFFICIAL ideas about how to fit F-35Bs aboard future CVL VERSION TRIESTE via e-mail.
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Unread post28 Apr 2019, 23:10

E-mailed Unofficial CAVOUR with F-35Bs
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Corsair1963

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Unread post29 Apr 2019, 01:40

spazsinbad wrote:Some UNOFFICIAL ideas about how to fit F-35Bs aboard future CVL VERSION TRIESTE via e-mail.



Is the Italian Navy going to acquire the Osprey???
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Unread post30 Apr 2019, 20:04

Turkish first aircraft carrier on fire TCG ANADOLU Sedef Shipyard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epTBWGxEgPk

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loke

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Unread post01 May 2019, 09:20

Well, unlesss they can sort out the S-400 issue Turkey will never get the F-35... An aircraft carrier without aircraft...
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Corsair1963

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Unread post01 May 2019, 09:54

loke wrote:Well, unlesss they can sort out the S-400 issue Turkey will never get the F-35... An aircraft carrier without aircraft...




Well, the RAN operates a very similar sister-ship with just Helicopters. Yet, clearly additional F-35B's would bring considerable punch!
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Unread post01 May 2019, 22:37

FWIW via e-mail from a credible source about recent ANADOLU fire (seen above):
"Minimal damage as the vessel had not yet been fitted out. The timber scaffolding and packaging caught fire. No delays in commissioning. Turkey has however beefed up security around the ship in the shipyard."
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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