F-22 passive sensors?

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
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icemaverick

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Unread post02 Oct 2012, 21:57

I know much of it is classified and we don't know the exact details, but what is known about the Raptor's passive sensors? Often you read about the Raptor being able to detect enemy aircraft without even turning on its radar. For example it is claimed that, at the ATLC exercises, F-22 pilots could secure BVR AMRAAM launches on Rafales without turning on their radars.

I saw a military channel documentary which talked about certain surfaces on the Raptor being able to pickup infrared emissions. Does that basically make this system an IRST?
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velocityvector

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Unread post02 Oct 2012, 22:52

icemaverick wrote:I know much of it is classified and we don't know the exact details, but what is known about the Raptor's passive sensors? Often you read about the Raptor being able to detect enemy aircraft without even turning on its radar. For example it is claimed that, at the ATLC exercises, F-22 pilots could secure BVR AMRAAM launches on Rafales without turning on their radars.

I saw a military channel documentary which talked about certain surfaces on the Raptor being able to pickup infrared emissions. Does that basically make this system an IRST?

No, not based on public disclosures. Raptor is a radio bird. Her "light" sensing systems don't have the granularity to process for real tracking, so it would be wrong to call the systems IRST. (Provision is available for this if we want to pay for the capability, though.) Raptor is intended to be used in a unique way, and her signature makes for guiding a light seeker on her very challenging even with projected developments. 0.02
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post02 Oct 2012, 23:24

The F-22's MLD has the optical horsepower to handle A2A EODAS-type functionality but lacks the computing power/software to do so.

Here are some links to direct video captures of F-22 MLD sensors (not available to the pilot).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUj3JTe1nVI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVrdQhYQI1M

I am sure that they could upgrade the MLD sensors to detect & track airborne targets but it would require more CPU and software changes to the MLD and F-22 itself.
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velocityvector

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Unread post03 Oct 2012, 01:08

SpudmanWP wrote:The F-22's MLD has the optical horsepower to handle A2A EODAS-type functionality but lacks the computing power/software to do so.

Here are some links to direct video captures of F-22 MLD sensors (not available to the pilot).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUj3JTe1nVI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVrdQhYQI1M

I am sure that they could upgrade the MLD sensors to detect & track airborne targets but it would require more CPU and software changes to the MLD and F-22 itself.


Disagree, respectfully said. MLD certainly can't IFF reliably even with "computing power/software" additions. EODAS is touted to have that capability and I presume same for leading IRSTs fielded. The difference is in the hardware and its broad performance over FOV. MLD "missile LAUNCH defense" should pick up an object that is being powered. EODAS should pick up an object after burn out, coasting and falling. EODAS should be able to identify satellites; I suspect there is no way MLD on F-22 can do that currently excepting radio/radar, which are more than capable that realm.
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TC

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Unread post03 Oct 2012, 02:49

This thread = OPSEC FAIL!
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velocityvector

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Unread post03 Oct 2012, 03:20

TC wrote:This thread = OPSEC FAIL!

Not my posts, which are pure text and speak for themselves. Re other members: it's all there on YouTube in amazing Technicolor display, presumably not published by them.
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munny

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Unread post03 Oct 2012, 05:11

velocityvector wrote: EODAS should be able to identify satellites;


Think thats a bit ambitious.
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Prinz_Eugn

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Unread post03 Oct 2012, 06:24

munny wrote:
velocityvector wrote: EODAS should be able to identify satellites;


Think thats a bit ambitious.


On a clear night, you can track some satellites with the Mk I Eyeball... so it's less impossible than it sounds but probably not useful.
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velocityvector

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Unread post03 Oct 2012, 06:57

My point, assuming ever there was one, here there or anywhere, is field of view - FOV - can be manipulated with EODAS but not so much with MLD and that ain't all software. EODAS should see broader spectrum. Which makes sense as F-35 is a newer-fielded platform. That's all. Oh, except the satellite ID was mentioned because 2) that could be useful, and 1) it helps illustrate and underscore my first sentence last post and prior post, again, assuming there was a point to be made there. No US Marshalls required.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post03 Oct 2012, 13:30

A few things:

1. EODAS is used to track, not IFF airborne targets.
2. MLD covers the same FOV (360) that EODAS can.
3. LM has already said that they can upgrade MLD to give it A2A EODAS-like functionality.
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Unread post03 Oct 2012, 16:09

SpudmanWP wrote:A few things:

1. EODAS is used to track, not IFF airborne targets.
2. MLD covers the same FOV (360) that EODAS can.
3. LM has already said that they can upgrade MLD to give it A2A EODAS-like functionality.


Are you sure about the lack of computing power, being the issue? It sounded like it was more of a software upgrade(much like the additional upgrades in 3.1/3.2....). The F-22 isn't currently maxing out its computational abilities, and there's room in the avionics rack, to increase the capabilities by over 200%.
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Unread post03 Oct 2012, 17:11

It is the EODAS itself (and the MLD by extension) that classifies, tracks and provides a range for a detected object. It then passes the track to the F-22's ICP.

Right now that MLD only has to worry about missiles. When you add airborne planes into the mix (especially the ranging part) the sensor has to do more work thereby needing more CPU muscle to get the job done. If you add an upgrade to the IIR sensor itself into the mix, then the CPU will need to process more pixels on top of the additional track tasks.

It's the MLD's CPU that needs upgrading (along with its software), not the F-22's.
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Unread post04 Oct 2012, 04:04

If the ALR-94 is as impressive against air emitters as it is for ground sources, the Rator has nothing to worry about.
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Unread post29 Oct 2012, 07:25

Remember several years back when an engaged couple got lost in the desert out west and a F-22 was credited with locating them (at night IIRC) and radioing their position to a rescue helo?

It was never explained how the Raptor located them.. no EOTS, EODAS and only an IR MWD which should not have been a factor (unless the couple was firing missiles at the Raptor :D )..

So how did the Raptor find them out in the desert? My best guess is they had something emiting RF (like a cell phone) which was picked up by the AN/ALR-94.. but if they had a phone, then they should have simply called 911 so maybe they just couldn't get a signal.

I remember joking at the time that the helo crrew got invited to the wedding but the F-22 driver wasn't. :D
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Unread post29 Oct 2012, 10:50

popcorn wrote:Remember several years back when an engaged couple got lost in the desert out west and a F-22 was credited with locating them (at night IIRC) and radioing their position to a rescue helo?

It was never explained how the Raptor located them.. no EOTS, EODAS and only an IR MWD which should not have been a factor (unless the couple was firing missiles at the Raptor :D )..

So how did the Raptor find them out in the desert? My best guess is they had something emiting RF (like a cell phone) which was picked up by the AN/ALR-94.. but if they had a phone, then they should have simply called 911 so maybe they just couldn't get a signal.

I remember joking at the time that the helo crrew got invited to the wedding but the F-22 driver wasn't. :D


Not to take any wind out of your sails, but it if it was at night, then the pilot most likely spotted them with NVG's. The F-22 can cover a lot of ground in a short amount of time, and it wouldn't be hard to spot people in the desert at night with NVG's.
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