Romney wants to buy more F-22s

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
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1st503rdsgt

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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 00:38

"Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said Saturday he would buy more F-22 Raptors as part of his plan to reverse many of the defense cuts planned by the Obama administration...

'Rather than completing nine ships per year, I’d move that up to 15. I’d also add F-22s to our Air Force fleet. And I’d add about 100,000 active duty personnel to our military team,' Romney said in the interview. “I think the idea of shrinking our military to try and get closer to balancing our budget is the wrong place to look...

Air Force leaders pushed to build more F-22s to add to the fleet because they warned a fleet of 187 would be insufficient to defeat an enemy with a top line air force like China. Former Air Force Chief of Staffs Gen. Norton Schwartz and Gen. Michael “Buzz” Moseley argued the costs of re-opening the production line would be too costly to build up the fleet if Congress changed its mind and wanted more F-22s..."

Plenty more at the jump.

Whether he's serious or not, this is sure to set tongues a'wagging.:shock:


http://www.dodbuzz.com/2012/09/10/romne ... ore-f-22s/
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Prinz_Eugn

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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 01:51

1st503rdsgt wrote:
Prinz_Eugn wrote:What kind of ships?


I doubt he'd be able to tell you, but that's not really the topic here anyways.


Exactly... these kinds of policy statements are just election talk, subject to change if he gets elected and then gets direct input from DoD.

More F-22's would be nice, but getting them might be more trouble than it's worth, especially with the F-35 (justifiably) devouring resources and attention.
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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 01:56

Probably off the cuff. It would have been nice to buy more when the line was still open, but re-opening it now is probably not worth it -- or at least not a better use of money than speeding up F-35 production.
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bigjku

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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 02:29

To me the F-22, while a great platform that in its role will kick a$$ for a very long time, is just not worth starting back up unless you can make some major changes to the design to fix some of the problems and make it have more in common with the F-35.
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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 02:55

This guy already had every single vote in my family. Here's hoping we'll wind up with a capable F-15 replacement on Round II.

As for improvements, let's see:

-Redesigned cockpit making use of F-35 technology
-IRST
-DAS
-AIM-9X
(Optional: second crewmember for AWACS role, VLO external weapons pods for AMRAAM/SDB)

...just to name a few.
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madrat

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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 03:07

It would be better to maintain F-35A numbers.
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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 03:25

1st503rdsgt
this is sure to set tongues a'wagging

No doubt that's exactly Romney's intent. This is the second post I've seen on the 'net about this today see http://aviationintel.com/2012/09/11/romney-pledges-to-restart-f-22-raptor-production/
This looks like a play for votes to all the defense employee's whose job's are in jeopardy with sequestration around the corner. But even if Romney get's elected I don't see him coming through on this (especially with the F-35 Lightning II about to enter production).
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discofishing

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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 03:46

To me the F-22, while a great platform that in its role will kick a$$ for a very long time, is just not worth starting back up unless you can make some major changes to the design to fix some of the problems and make it have more in common with the F-35.


...and apply those changes to the current fleet of F-22As.

Doesn't the US Government own the right to the design and all the tooling? If they can make PW produce F404s, why can't they make Boeing build F-22s? Boeing already makes/made major components for the F-22 so maybe they could build the whole thing cheaper. Either way, I would feel more comfortable with a fleet of 500 F-22s and I think the USAF would too. There's always the black-program options. We could publicly acknowledge 187 F-22s and operate the rest like we used to do with the F-117 and B-2.
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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 04:16

discofishing wrote:
To me the F-22, while a great platform that in its role will kick a$$ for a very long time, is just not worth starting back up unless you can make some major changes to the design to fix some of the problems and make it have more in common with the F-35.


...and apply those changes to the current fleet of F-22As.

Doesn't the US Government own the right to the design and all the tooling? If they can make PW produce F404s, why can't they make Boeing build F-22s? Boeing already makes/made major components for the F-22 so maybe they could build the whole thing cheaper. Either way, I would feel more comfortable with a fleet of 500 F-22s and I think the USAF would too. There's always the black-program options. We could publicly acknowledge 187 F-22s and operate the rest like we used to do with the F-117 and B-2.


B-2 never flew as a black program, there was a public roll out and everything. And I dont think you're going to build 313 supercruising jets and then fly them only at night from Tonopah without somebody noticing...
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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 04:24

Regardless if Romney will follow through on his statement or not, it’s good to hear a Presidential candidate that is committed to preserving our military capabilities. It’s unfortunate that he isn’t the current President, otherwise the F-22 may still be in production instead of past administrations cutting, cutting, deferring and then stopping the program.

Although restarting the F-22 line is very slim even if Romney is elected, it also isn’t out of the question, as proven in the past. I'd side with the person who gives that possibility.
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1st503rdsgt

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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 04:28

discofishing wrote:Doesn't the US Government own the right to the design and all the tooling? If they can make PW produce F404s, why can't they make Boeing build F-22s?


That's an intriguing concept; it would certainly help keep Boeing in the TACAIR game after the F-15/Superhornet. However, I rather doubt the legal situation is simple as that.
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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 05:21

madrat wrote:It would be better to maintain F-35A numbers.

Yes keep the F-35 numbers.

I've said it before; A 5.5th Gen NGAD could work for both the Air force and the Navy. Lets not forget one of the big costs in a 5th gen fighter is avionics and the software driving it. There is no technical reason why they can't have a large commonality between USAF and Navy jets. Boeing could subcontract part of the F/A-XX jet development and production to Lockheed Martin to keep things balanced and the IP demons at bay.

Unfortunately, there is little software compatibility between the F/A-18E/F and the F-35 avionics, so depending on how the Block III upgrades go, the F/A-18E/F avionics could provide a good stepping stone to a 5.5th gen NGAD.
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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 06:06

1st503rdsgt wrote:
discofishing wrote:Doesn't the US Government own the right to the design and all the tooling? If they can make PW produce F404s, why can't they make Boeing build F-22s?


That's an intriguing concept; it would certainly help keep Boeing in the TACAIR game after the F-15/Superhornet. However, I rather doubt the legal situation is simple as that.


During WW2 each fighter could be manufactured by several companies.
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1st503rdsgt

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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 06:22

neurotech wrote:
madrat wrote:It would be better to maintain F-35A numbers.

Yes keep the F-35 numbers.

I've said it before; A 5.5th Gen NGAD could work for both the Air force and the Navy. Lets not forget one of the big costs in a 5th gen fighter is avionics and the software driving it. There is no technical reason why they can't have a large commonality between USAF and Navy jets. Boeing could subcontract part of the F/A-XX jet development and production to Lockheed Martin to keep things balanced and the IP demons at bay.

Unfortunately, there is little software compatibility between the F/A-18E/F and the F-35 avionics, so depending on how the Block III upgrades go, the F/A-18E/F avionics could provide a good stepping stone to a 5.5th gen NGAD.


NGAD is an all-Navy project to replace the Superhornet in fleet-defense roles, and will most likely be nothing more than a later-block F-35C given likely budget restrictions. As for the USAF, a fresh run of updated/unfucked F-22s would serve just fine as "5.5th Gen" dogfighters; that is... assuming Romney's campaign promise isn't so much hot air.
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1st503rdsgt

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Unread post11 Sep 2012, 06:26

madrat wrote:
1st503rdsgt wrote:
discofishing wrote:Doesn't the US Government own the right to the design and all the tooling? If they can make PW produce F404s, why can't they make Boeing build F-22s?


That's an intriguing concept; it would certainly help keep Boeing in the TACAIR game after the F-15/Superhornet. However, I rather doubt the legal situation is simple as that.


During WW2 each fighter could be manufactured by several companies.


I know that (applied to more than just fighters), but that was in a war economy; good luck making it happen now.
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