F-35B UK SRVL info - Updated when new/old info available

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SpudmanWP

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Unread post19 Jan 2018, 05:34

Maybe he based it off this 2016 article?

Image

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... rs-9259482

1. Both islands are jacked up
2. JBD
3. The right side is supposed to be straight, not bulged out.

Here is a 4k * 3k image of the deck

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 753%29.jpg
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Unread post19 Jan 2018, 06:05

NOICE CVF Image - thanks 'SWP'. One can see that is a poor 3D graphic not worth much. I'll concede your points - my main interest was the JBD which was removed from the design c.2008 per.... [nice long informative article BTW - repeated....]

All of it: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12631&p=172162&hilit=scheduling+integration#p172162
Preparing for take-off: UK ramps up F-35 carrier integration effort
11 Dec 2008 International Defence Review

“...In the final analysis, the decision has been taken to delete the JBD from the STOVL CVF design. Cdr Lison explains: "We determined from the CFD modelling that the legacy JBD did not offer adequate protection. Alternative designs were considered which offered some benefit, but two considerations persuaded us to delete the requirement.

"First, the nozzle scheduling of the F-35B on take-off has yet to be fully established, and there was a risk that the jet blast would simply 'bounce' over the JBD. Second, the JBD was in a single fixed position on the flight deck, so there was no flexibility with regard to the length of the take-off run."...”



Source: http://militarynuts.com/index.php?showtopic=1507&st=120
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Unread post21 Feb 2018, 11:21

Lightning Force takes shape [ download/file.php?id=26667 (1.36Mb) ]
March 2018 Alan Warnes [more quotes from same article: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=389042&hilit=Warnes#p389042 ]

"...Shipborne rolling vertical landing
At Pax River, Sqn Ldr Edgell is part of a team of 220 personnel, a mix of UK/US military and civilians. They form the ITF that will execute the autumn trial. He preferred not to give the exact dates of the trials, which are now set in stone, but confirmed there would be two phases within the two months of work.

“We are capable of doing two months at sea, but it’s a challenge to continue the high level of concentration, efficiency and effectiveness, so we are breaking it down in two phases, with a week’s break in between.”

He explained that first-of-class flight trials will always start at a safe and comfortable part of the F-35B’s envelope. “We will conduct vertical landings and short take-offs from the ship, while it is at low speed and with little crosswind, nothing too significant, but then build up the forward speed with a little bit of tailwind, then crosswinds with asymmetric stores on the aircraft and night-phase ops. We will expand the vertical and short take-off regime, but an extra aspect for us is the shipborne rolling vertical landing [SRVL].”

This is a concept invented by the UK on the VAAC (Vectored-thrust Aircraft Advanced Control) Harrier, which was proven during trials aboard the French Navy’s Charles de Gaulle carrier in 2007. When returning to the carrier, an in-service Harrier would normally pull up beside the ship, and then hover sideways across the deck and land, just as the F-35 will. However, SRVL enables the aircraft to keep the forward speed, with the onboard computers able to help the jet create wing lift. At the same time, the thrust from its engine and lift fan creates the forward momentum that can directly translate to a bring-back capability. This enables the aircraft to accomplish a slow landing speed of 57kts, and the ability to return with more weapons and fuel. Normally, this would have had to be dumped before landing, particularly when working in hot climates, so the SRVL will save the British taxpayer hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Edgell added: “The F-35Bs will fly at about 35 knots overtake, or, simply put, 35 knots faster than the boat on a seven degree flight path, then when the jet hits the deck the pilot will jump on the brakes. We couldn’t do it with the Harrier and the [Invincible-class] ships were not long enough.”

Four pilots will be involved in trials, and potentially a fifth pilot in reserve. The ITF team will comprise UK and US test pilots, possibly alongside specialists such as BAE’s Peter ‘Wizzer’ Wilson, the short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) lead test pilot. It will deploy for eight weeks, utilising VX-23’s specialised test F-35B Block 3F jets, which the UK bought into.

A year after the tests are completed, in autumn 2019, No 17(R) Squadron, with elements of No 617 Squadron, will carry out the operational F-35B tests on HMS Queen Elizabeth. This is part of Lightning IOC (Maritime) planned for late 2020 that will pave the way for the carrier and ‘Dambusters’ F-35Bs to make an inaugural deployment together in 2021. These are exciting times for the F-35 Lightning Force, as the fifthgeneration fighter shapes up to spearhead air power for decades to come, on land and at sea."

Source: AirForces Monthly Magazine March 2018 No.360
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post23 Feb 2018, 21:54

spazsinbad wrote:
Lightning Force takes shape [ download/file.php?id=26667 (1.36Mb) ]
March 2018 Alan Warnes However, SRVL enables the aircraft to keep the forward speed, with the onboard computers able to help the jet create wing lift. At the same time, the thrust from its engine and lift fan creates the forward momentum that can directly translate to a bring-back capability.

Source: AirForces Monthly Magazine March 2018 No.360


Ho Ree Chit! Looks like I gotta give the Brits credit where it's due: figuring out how to create wing lift with onboard computers! And a lift fan that doesn't create lift, but forward momentum! Dang, but if the Brits aren't clever chaps.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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Unread post24 Feb 2018, 00:23

Perhaps a misplaced comma is involved? I feel for the knowledgeable journo aviationwise who attempts to quickly explain complicated aviation issues relatively simply for those not so well informed. For example let us parse that sentence again.... Yep the words can be changed and re-arranged however I'll just change/add the comma - see what happens....
"... SRVL enables the aircraft to keep the forward speed [KIAS], with the onboard computers, able to help the jet create wing lift. At the same time, the thrust from its engine and lift fan creates the forward momentum.... ['momentum' is BAD because it is KIAS wot does it]
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post23 Apr 2018, 11:01

Earlier MUCH LONGER excerpt from JANES PDF is here: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=393241&hilit=FOCFT#p393241
Lining up the approach: RN prepares for F-35B trials on Queen Elizabeth
06 Feb 2018 Richard Scott, Jane’s Defence Weekly

...SRVL testing
While ski-jump launch and VL envelopes will be prioritised in the early part of the test programme, SRVLs have also been included in the plan. “For the first four weeks we will be looking to do vertical landings in fairly benign sea states, working up to higher sea states and then into rolling vertical landings,” Cdr Gray told Jane’s . “Our ambition is to include SRVL in the first portion of testing.”

Pilots making a vertical recovery will use a glide slope and long-range line-up indicator system incorporating two Advanced Stabilised Glide Slope Indicators (ASGSIs). The two ASGSI projectors, situated one forward and one aft on the port side of the flight deck, provide a long-range line-up indication.

The execution of an SRVL has required the development of a quite different VLA known as the ‘Bedford Array’. Originated and initially prototyped by QinetiQ, the Bedford Array uses software-controlled LED lights in the deck tramlines to provide a stabilised glidepath alignment cue and a forward and aft limit line to F-35B pilots carrying out SRVL approaches.

“The Bedford Array will give us a [SHIP?]geostabilised approach for the SRVL so we maintain on glide slope whatever the ship is doing in the higher sea states,” said Cdr Gray. “We also have the LSO [in the FLYCO], who is absolutely critical to flight safety.

“The SRVL [approach] is a very precise profile, which needs to be flown to make it safe and repeatable, so the LSO … will have all the technology, with the glide slope scale, to talk us down and, if necessary, to wave us off so we can go back around and re-attempt. “From our simulator trials we’re confident [that SRVL is] going to be safe and effective,” he continued. “It will allow us to bring back considerably more weapon payload or fuel. If it’s fuel then that makes it inherently safer to operate because it gives us the option to divert, or maybe to make another approach.”

Even so, as Atkinson pointed out, there remains an element of the unknown when it comes to SRVL. “We have conducted a lot of work on the manoeuvre in the simulator, but we have never flown an SRVL with an F-35 to a real ship before,” he noted, warning that “in that case we must progress cautiously; SRVL is in a very different state of maturity than vertical landing. “In the latter case we are absolutely confident we know the capability we can obtain and possibly extend beyond what is already available on the US Navy’s LHDs [landing helicopter dock amphibious ships] because our islands are so much further away from our landing spots, so the airflow characteristics over the deck for a vertical landing ought to be good.”...

Source: http://www.janes.com/images/assets/632/ ... zabeth.pdf (0.85Mb)
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post23 Jul 2018, 09:59

Pilot's eye view of F 35B Lightning from HMS Queen Elizabeth [includes ski jump STO & SRVL]

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post23 Jul 2018, 17:33

Could go in the other thread 'MoD in a Muddle' however I'll plonk it here for the specific bit about Bedford Array fitment.
The HMS Queen Elizabeth and Crafting the Way Ahead for Its Initial Deployment
15 Jun 2018 Robbin Laird

"...Captain Blackmore highlighted the way ahead: “We accepted the ship last December and she will go off for the next two years to do fixed wing trials. “We will do Developmental Test (DT) one and two this Autumn, DT three next Autumn, then Operational Test with the goal of achieving an initial operational capability (IOC) for carrier strike in December 2020 and then about four months later, we plan to deploy CSG-21.

“My focus is clearly on this end point, namely the first deployment wherever it is finally decided to do the initial deployment. “Prince of Wales comes on about two years astern to Queen Elizabeth and she will be seen off the US Eastern Seaboard early next decade to do the rolling landing trials.

“We have a new landing aide called a Bedford array which is fitted to Prince of Wales which allows us to exploit the full enveloped of rolling landing and gives the pilot visual cues which enhance his capability to come back to the ship with more fuel and weapons as needed, The Queen Elizabeth will then be fitted with the new system.”

A key element for the carrier is clearly its integration with the F-35 for which the developmental test will expound[? -EXPAND?] this Fall off of the Virginia coast. The declaration of full operational capability for the carrier is correlated with the operation of the first 24 F-35Bs, which will occur by 2023...."

Source: https://sldinfo.com/2018/06/the-hms-que ... eployment/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post13 Aug 2018, 02:01

Page 23 of this thread has links to other V-22 MROL info so I thought to put this latest news here instead of elsewhere:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20304&p=314261&hilit=MROL#p314261
The Future of U.S. Navy Onboard Delivery Missions [JPG Reminds me of "Look Ma No Hook" C-130 tests long ago 1964?]
10 Aug 2018 Petty Officer 3rd Class Roland John USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77)

"...In August 2018, Osprey pilots successfully tested rolling landing and takeoffs in excess of 57,000 pounds on the flight deck of the ship. This key capability allows the Osprey to haul more weight than the C-2A, which is limited to landing at 49,000 pounds. GHWB’s onboard testing included integrating the MV-22 into flight deck operations, and heavy gross weight rolling landings and takeoffs....

...The Navy COD crews piloting CMV-22 aircraft will land and take off with forward airspeed, which allows flight at a much higher weight....

...The CMV-22 Osprey is expected to achieve Initial Operational Capability by 2021. As compared to the MV-22B, the Navy variant has extended operational range, a beyond line-of-sight HF radio, improved fuel dump capability, a public address system for passengers, and an improved lighting system for cargo loading."

Photo:"Photo By Petty Officer 3rd Class Roland John | 180801-N-FA806-0068 ATLANTIC OCEAN (Aug. 1, 2018) An MV-22 Osprey, assigned to Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (HX) 21, lands on the flight deck aboard the aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77). The ship is underway conducting routine training exercises to maintain carrier readiness. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Roland John)" https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/4617247 (1Mb)


Source: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/288382/fu ... y-missions
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RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post13 Aug 2018, 22:33

Carrier Bush, Osprey COD trials Aug 2018

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post14 Aug 2018, 00:33

If, only the UK had a modest number of Osprey's for it Queen Elizabeth Carriers. Which, could perform AEW&C, Tanker, and COD Missions. Then you could really exploit the F-35B's. :twisted:
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Unread post14 Aug 2018, 01:41

IF ONLY the UK had heaps of money to spare for such things - maybe later. They struggle as it is.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post14 Aug 2018, 03:47

The UK could afford more. Just the Government chooses not too....... :|
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Unread post16 Aug 2018, 22:24

Jeepers I had forgotten that USN had carried out MROL tests on a CVN in 2015:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=23690&p=308836&hilit=speke#p308836
V-22 Testing Could Lead To Higher Takeoff Weights
12 Nov 2015 Tony Osborne

"DUBAI – Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) has been working to widen the V-22 Osprey’s flight envelope by testing rolling landing [MROL] and takeoffs, which could pave the way for higher takeoff weights. Speaking at the Dubai Airshow on Nov. 10, Col. Dan Robinson, V-22 program manager, said the tests would be applicable to the Osprey’s use as the Navy’s future carrier/vertical onboard delivery (COD/VOD) platform as well as amphibious assault ships.

The tests were carried out on one of the Navy’s aircraft carriers in October, and saw the Osprey perform 69 minimum roll-on landings using the angled deck for the landing and takeoff runs. Crews also performed 14 takeoffs at the MV-22’s maximum gross weight of 60,500 lb., some 3,500 lb. over the Osprey’s current maximum rolling takeoff weight of 57,000 lb. The current maximum vertical takeoff weight is 52,600 lb. The aim is to make Osprey’s maximum gross weight also the rolling maximum takeoff weight, industry officials told Aviation Week.

“This was done as a target of opportunity,” Robinson told reporters. “The same handling qualities can be used on the Marine amphibious assault ships.”..."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/v-22-te ... ff-weights
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post13 Oct 2018, 17:56

Good SIM Pilot Views of SRVL Approaches plus other GUFF.

F-35B and QEC integration testing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKbFb9Mln18

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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