should usa export f 22 to trusted allys.

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
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warwolf1

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 15:39

Should the UK, Canada and Australia ask the US for access to the F-22 or should Britain build a BAE replica?
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madrat

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 15:46

Neither.
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warwolf1

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 16:19

Why not?
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sufaviper

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 16:45

The line is closed and it would cost hundreds of Millions if not Billions to restart the line.

Giving the tech to BAE is not in the US or LM/Boeings best interest, so no to the BAE replica.

The F-22 is too expensive/speciallized for the above for their current requirements (Canada-doesn't need a dedicated Air-to-Air fighter, Austrailia-F-35 meets the Air-to-Air need, UK-Typhoon + F-35 meets the Air-to-Air need.).

Israel has the money (ok, its US money given as FMA) and the need. You think Iran was not happy about USAF F-22's in the Middle East, think about how they would feel if Israel had a couple squadrons. But like I said, the line is closed.

Sufa Viper
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pants3204

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 17:17

sufaviper wrote:The line is closed and it would cost hundreds of Millions if not Billions to restart the line.

Giving the tech to BAE is not in the US or LM/Boeings best interest, so no to the BAE replica.

The F-22 is too expensive/speciallized for the above for their current requirements (Canada-doesn't need a dedicated Air-to-Air fighter, Austrailia-F-35 meets the Air-to-Air need, UK-Typhoon + F-35 meets the Air-to-Air need.).

Israel has the money (ok, its US money given as FMA) and the need. You think Iran was not happy about USAF F-22's in the Middle East, think about how they would feel if Israel had a couple squadrons. But like I said, the line is closed.

Sufa Viper


Israel would be the last nation to receive the F-22.

http://www.usatoday.com/USCP/PNI/Front% ... g_ST_U.htm



Despite inarguable ties between the U.S. and its closest ally in the Middle East and despite statements from U.S. politicians trumpeting the friendship, U.S. national security officials consider Israel to be, at times, a frustrating ally and a genuine counterintelligence threat.

In addition to what the former U.S. officials described as intrusions in homes in the past decade, Israel has been implicated in U.S. criminal espionage cases and disciplinary proceedings against CIA officers and blamed in the presumed death of an important spy in Syria for the CIA during the administration of President George W. Bush.

The CIA considers Israel its No. 1 counterintelligence threat in the agency's Near East Division, the group that oversees spying across the Middle East, according to current and former officials. Counterintelligence is the art of protecting national secrets from spies. This means the CIA believes that U.S. national secrets are safer from other Middle Eastern governments than from Israel.

Israel employs highly sophisticated, professional spy services that rival American agencies in technical capability and recruiting human sources. Unlike Iran or Syria, for example, Israel as a steadfast U.S. ally enjoys access to the highest levels of the U.S. government in military and intelligence circles.

The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities.


Not to mention the numerous intelligence gaffs that have resulted in sensitive US knowledge in the hands of US foreign adversaries because of an Israeli "mistake"
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warwolf1

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 19:44

Should the UK go its own way though? From the pics of the replica its a twin engined design, built for RAF and FAA.
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cywolf32

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 19:54

They do not have the funds or resources to do so.
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batu731

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 20:14

Why the allies need F-22s when F-22 is suppose to operate without support from its allies? It cant' even use LINK16 within US's own military.

Like F117 and B-2, they share this rather extreme doctrine, so its pretty obvious they weren't built to export to anyone, nor to be mass produced for US itself.
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pants3204

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 20:32

batu731 wrote:It cant' even use LINK16 within US's own military. .

If I'm not mistaken the F-22 can only receive LINK16 but can tx/rx BACN/IFDL/etc
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 20:45

Correct on the Link16
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batu731

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 20:56

pants3204 wrote:
batu731 wrote:It cant' even use LINK16 within US's own military. .

If I'm not mistaken the F-22 can only receive LINK16 but can tx/rx BACN/IFDL/etc


Yes your are correct, the communication between the F-22s and other American/Allied assets is uni directional, F-22 being at the passive side only.
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sufaviper

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Unread post07 Aug 2012, 22:03

I never said they would get it, just that they have both the money and the need unlike the others listed.

Sufa Viper
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caraptor

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Unread post08 Aug 2012, 00:12

if the us started producing f22s again i dont think we would sell them
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jeffb

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Unread post08 Aug 2012, 01:34

I'll dispute this one (surprise, surprise)

Cost of the F-22 was headed down to a projected $140M per copy if they'd built the original 400+. $140M doesn't really seem all that expensive these days does it? It's more survivable versus the new emerging SAM systems and it currently has no equal in the air superiority field (and this will likely continue for some time yet). It carries a more powerful radar and has stealth which is an order of magnitude (at least) better than the F-35. That, combined with superior passive detection systems makes it a better deep strike platform as well.

Sorry Sufa, an "adequate" fighter is not sufficient when everyone else is building aircraft to compete with the F-22. Reopening the F-22 line will not only allow the US to build up the necessary numbers of real fighters but will also, through FM sales, significantly increasing the effectiveness of allied air forces. Don't take my word for it though:

Image

Part of the documentation put together for the Australian F-22 FMS deal before we got sucked into the vortex of despair that is the F-35 program.
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count_to_10

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Unread post08 Aug 2012, 02:02

Actually, isn't the only thing we know about the RCS the requirements for the programs? Only people with sufficient clearance know if the stealth on the F-22 is "an order of magnitude better" than the F-35. This is especially important considering that the F-22 requires so much maintenance for it's stealth.
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.
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