JSF WVR Air to Air Combat

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calel

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Unread post23 Jul 2012, 22:29

With what capabilities will the F-35 Lightning II dominate its adversaries in the Within Visual Range (WVR) Air to Air Combat?
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firstimpulse

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Unread post23 Jul 2012, 23:03

Most would reply that the cutting-edge EODAS system combined with the newest AIM-9Xs would make the F-35 utterly dominate against anything that isn't a Raptor, and maybe that as well. I'm less convinced myself, but I am sure that with a good driver the thing will beat any 4th gen jet close up in most engagements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fm5vfGW5RY
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count_to_10

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Unread post23 Jul 2012, 23:59

It isn't so much "dominate" as it is "able to deal with it", from what I understand. We'll have to wait and see how the match-ups go once they start flying it in mock combat.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post24 Jul 2012, 00:05

EODAS + AIM-120D, later NGM.
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firstimpulse

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Unread post24 Jul 2012, 04:06

count_to_10 wrote:It isn't so much "dominate" as it is "able to deal with it", from what I understand. We'll have to wait and see how the match-ups go once they start flying it in mock combat.


Agreed. It always seems that as soon as some engineer declare's his shiny new plane/weapon has made the dogfight obsolete, some loophole comes along... :wink:
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weasel1962

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Unread post24 Jul 2012, 07:11

Does EOTS (like the sniper pod) provide visual range extension? If EOTS enables the pilot to see beyond what the eyes can see without visual aids, it will make the definition of WVR very misleading. AIM-120C/D becomes a WVR weapon.
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popcorn

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Unread post24 Jul 2012, 08:47

EODAS is a big part of the F-35 advantage in the WVR arena. Also have to factor in the benefit of all F-35s in the fight sharing a Common Operating Picture of the ongoing situation so they can coordinate their offense/defense to a degree that their opponents cannot hope to match. He who fights smarter usually wins.
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wrightwing

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Unread post24 Jul 2012, 20:40

weasel1962 wrote:Does EOTS (like the sniper pod) provide visual range extension? If EOTS enables the pilot to see beyond what the eyes can see without visual aids, it will make the definition of WVR very misleading. AIM-120C/D becomes a WVR weapon.


AMRAAM can be used WVR, and AIM-9X can be used BVR(notably the Block II variants.)
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wrightwing

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Unread post24 Jul 2012, 20:48

calel wrote:With what capabilities will the F-35 Lightning II dominate its adversaries in the Within Visual Range (WVR) Air to Air Combat???


-Spherical engagement

-Superior Situational Awareness/IFF

-Reduced signature increases the difficulty of enemy sensors/weapons maintaining good lock

-Contempt of engagement/setting up engagements on advantageous terms
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post24 Jul 2012, 21:14

Let's not forget the planned Blk5 DIRCM.

I wonder if DIRCM could "accidentally" blind a pilot ;)
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alloycowboy

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Unread post24 Jul 2012, 21:19

calel wrote:With what capabilities will the F-35 Lightning II dominate its adversaries in the Within Visual Range (WVR) Air to Air Combat???



Since the F-35 is networked to other F-35's, F-22's and AWACS to get into a turning fight with them would be shere stupidity because as soon as you try to engage an F-35 some other aircraft will be firing on you.
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Unread post24 Jul 2012, 23:25

alloycowboy wrote:
calel wrote:With what capabilities will the F-35 Lightning II dominate its adversaries in the Within Visual Range (WVR) Air to Air Combat???



Since the F-35 is networked to other F-35's, F-22's and AWACS to get into a turning fight with them would be shere stupidity because as soon as you try to engage an F-35 some other aircraft will be firing on you.


The impact on traditional fighter tactics has to be immense,,i.e. every other friendly in the vicinity effectively becomes,a wingman, even if situated miles away and the level of mutual support will be decisive.
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popcorn

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Unread post24 Jul 2012, 23:25

alloycowboy wrote:
calel wrote:With what capabilities will the F-35 Lightning II dominate its adversaries in the Within Visual Range (WVR) Air to Air Combat???



Since the F-35 is networked to other F-35's, F-22's and AWACS to get into a turning fight with them would be shere stupidity because as soon as you try to engage an F-35 some other aircraft will be firing on you.


The impact on traditional fighter tactics has to be immense,,i.e. every other friendly in the vicinity effectively becomes,a wingman, even if situated miles away and the level of mutual support will be decisive.
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count_to_10

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Unread post25 Jul 2012, 00:07

SpudmanWP wrote:Let's not forget the planned Blk5 DIRCM.

I wonder if DIRCM could "accidentally" blind a pilot ;)

Well, if you really want to look down the road, they are looking to instal an offensive laser in the F-35 where the B's lift fan sits.
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castlebravo

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Unread post25 Jul 2012, 00:25

firstimpulse wrote:It always seems that as soon as some engineer declare's his shiny new plane/weapon has made the dogfight obsolete, some loophole comes along... :wink:


To think that the turning dogfight will always be the dominate form of air to air combat is to me just as bad an assumption as when people thought early BVR missiles would make the dogfight a thing of the past.
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