Couldn't resist: New F-14 vs F-22 with cannon & AIM-9 on

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor

AESA equipped F-14 with AIM-120s vs a Raptor with cannon and AIM-9 only.

Poll ended at 21 Jul 2012, 04:45

AESA and AIM-120 equipped F-14
0
No votes
F-22 with Cannon and AIM-9 only
8
100%
 
Total votes : 8

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redbird87

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Unread post21 Jun 2012, 04:45

I just saw the F-14 vs F-22 poll/posts. Like most everyone else, I thought it ridiculous. Strictly for fun, let's even the odds a bit. A full decked out AESA equipped F-14 with AIM-120s (and Phoenix' if you like) vs a Raptor with cannon and AIM-9 only. I vote Raptor.
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Sharkey

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Unread post21 Jun 2012, 05:30

This seems a strange comparison to me, not even worth talking about. We can compare every aircraft to the F-22 in that case. How about the F-102 vs the Raptor...
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Unread post21 Jun 2012, 15:57

It brings the 2 aircraft much closer, mainly by handicapping the raptor. Put the capabilities of a modern AESA with a large antenna in that massive nose of the Tomcat. I'd imagine it would put out enough sheer energy that it would increase the detection/tracking range of the Raptor; maybe enough to fire it's longer range missiles before the raptor can squeeze off it's sidewinders.

Then again, with that radar pumping out so much power, the raptor would likely see it on it's ALR-94, stay out of the scanning angle and sneak up from behind for the kill.
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river_otter

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Unread post21 Jun 2012, 17:52

Raptor sees Tomcat far in advance. Raptor has choice of engagement. If the Raptor pilot feels he can maneuver into a position for a good Sidewinder shot, he makes those maneuvers unseen by the Tomcat. Tomcat dies shot from behind without ever knowing the Raptor was there. If the Raptor pilot doesn't see a good way past the Tomcat's radar into a firing solution, he breaks off and the engagement doesn't take place. Raptor kills Tomcat with an AIM-120D the next time they meet. Or Raptor breaks off and shadows the Tomcat out of detection range until the Tomcat turns to go home, and if the Raptor has enough fuel left to run it down and nail it with a Sidewinder, he does so then. Tomcat dies shot from behind without ever knowing the Raptor was there.
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structuresguy

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Unread post21 Jun 2012, 18:30

I remember attending a DAC exercise involving two squadrons of F/A-18E/F, along with F-5's from a Navy aggressor squadron. On the third day when the Super Hornets realized they were being attacked they attempted to out run our F-22's. And on the fourth day when all the players went out Navy leadership decided not included our Raptors. So without telling us our guys went out to the play area, orbited and when it was obvious no one was coming RTB'd. They told us later that the Navy felt they were wasting their time and weren’t learning anything other than how to die. This same scenario has played out too many times to count with too many different opponents. Again even though the Tomcat is BA there’s no way that airframe and that power plant will perform against a Raptor. You could load up the Tomcat with every ounce of Raptor (avionics, radar ect) but the sustained speed, altitude and LO will still be lacking for the F-14.
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avon1944

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Unread post15 Aug 2012, 03:46

I have been a real fan of the F-14 way back in 1969, when Grumman received the contract from the USN.
I would like to see how far away the F-14's Northrop AAX-1 television camera system could detect the F-22A in an head-on approach? Its 10X telescope-television was great for long range identification... and IFF type device. I have heard the the Typhoon's EOS could detect the F-22 at about 31 miles, well within the envelope for the AMRAAM!
The F-14 was a great plane and it was well capable of meeting enemy bombers at 350 miles from the carrier, to kill the bombers before they launched their anti-ship cruise missile at the carrier battle group. It (like me) was great for its time but, its time has come and gone.
The F-14 being able to deal with the F-22 would about as valid as the F-86 trying to deal with the F-15!
I can not envision any part of the envelopes in which the F-14 could come close to deal with F-22.
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munny

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Unread post15 Aug 2012, 06:37

The recent NG video talking about BVR hinted at the F-14 being able to see targets from "triple digit" miles. That would have to be very hot, afterburning targets methinks.
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neurotech

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Unread post15 Aug 2012, 08:38

munny wrote:The recent NG video talking about BVR hinted at the F-14 being able to see targets from "triple digit" miles. That would have to be very hot, afterburning targets methinks.

The TVS is only good if it can find the target. For long range, the TVS was slaved to radar to provide extended range visual ID. The significantly newer Su-30MKI OLS scans for targets without the radar targeting, and would have better luck against a F-22.

I'm also curious the conditions of 'triple digit' miles, as I hadn't seen it track a fighter sized target at more than 50 miles. A larger bogey like a Tu-160 might be located at longer ranges. The F-14 would need help from the E-2 for targeting vector at longer range.
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sewerrat

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Unread post15 Aug 2012, 13:45

redbird87 wrote:I just saw the F-14 vs F-22 poll/posts. Like most everyone else, I thought it ridiculous. Strictly for fun, let's even the odds a bit. A full decked out AESA equipped F-14 with AIM-120s (and Phoenix' if you like) vs a Raptor with cannon and AIM-9 only. I vote Raptor.


Tomcats were never equipped to handle the slammer. Raptor would detect the phoenix a long way away, jam its radar; Tomcat is left with sidewinders, but Raptor will squeeze off slammers long before Tomcat is within range for sidewinder, not taking into account IR suppression technology on Raptor. If sh*t goes to hell in a hand basket, and gun fight begins, do you really need to ask who would win? You've got one airplane thats basically lemon, squeeze it and the juice is gone, and you've got one airplane with an abundance of thrust and LO and a cruise speed nearly that of the theortical top speed of Tomcat - and surely its cruise speed is faster than the actual top speed of Tomcat.

Who knows, we may see this play out in Iran. . .

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redbird87

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Unread post17 Aug 2012, 14:35

Are any Iranian F-14s still airworthy?
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count_to_10

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Unread post17 Aug 2012, 23:53

redbird87 wrote:Are any Iranian F-14s still airworthy?

Someone had some pictures of them in the air from a recent event, and put them up somewhere on this forum.
No guarantee that they are still combat worthy, but they can apparently get some of them up into the air.
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redbird87

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Unread post18 Aug 2012, 03:47

I'm thinkin they'd last about 30 secs vs F-22s or and maybe 60 vs Israeli F-15s.
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madrat

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Unread post18 Aug 2012, 05:21

They had several escorting a Russian display team just this summer. The parts cited most likely the could not manufacture were the ball bearings of the TF30. No doubt with Russian and Chinese aid this was possible. And who knows, they may have shared their blue prints for the F-14A with the Chinese and Russians. They may have enough support to keep the originals mostly original. There is no reason to suspect they've been upgraded.
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FlightDreamz

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Unread post18 Aug 2012, 05:26

redbird87
Are any Iranian F-14s still airworthy?

Iran definitely has some F-14 Tomcats still airworthy see http://globalmilitaryreview.blogspot.co ... rting.html
Image
As for how airworthy Iran's remaining F-14's, how well the avionics are, what weapons they carry, etc. That's another matter entirely.
sewerrat
Tomcats were never equipped to handle the slammer.

They were scheduled to be upgraded to use AMRAAM's but that funding was used to integrate the LANTERN targeting pod instead (as has been covered on other threads before I believe).
Even with AMRAAM's and using Pratt & Whitney F119 engines (the Navy did toy with the idea of re-engining the F-14s with F-22 engines - sadly I can't find a link for that) it still would struggle against the F-22 Raptor. No stealth, the F-14 would be detected at a much greater range. Even with the F-14 sporting AESA radar, AMRAAM & Phoenix replacement missiles (AiM-152 if my memory serves?) the F-22 would still win.
Image
That said I'd rather see one of the "Tomcat 21" proposals serving off of navy carriers rather than F/A-18E Super Hornets, but then again I would have like to have seen 350/400 F-22 Raptors built instead of the 183/187(?) the USAF had to settle for! :shrug:
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.— Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

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