F-35 in anti ship mission

F-35 Armament, fuel tanks, internal and external hardpoints, loadouts, and other stores.
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moon_light

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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 04:57

what anti ship missile F-35 can use other than NSM , JSOW-ER and SOM :?
and will anti ship missile using ir or iir seeker like SOM or NSM be useless if the enemy ship is equip with something like intermat or Camuflaje Adaptiv :roll:
Camuflaje Adaptiv BAE system - YouTube
BBC News - Tanks test infrared invisibility cloak
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Intermat - Thermal and Radar Signature Management - Army Technology :roll:
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1st503rdsgt

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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 05:22

I would assume one or both versions of LRASM at some point (assuming they even get developed), but there's not much in the pipeline in that area. It's been a long time since anti-ship capability (surface or air launched) has been taken seriously in the West.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 05:55

IR management has one drawback... Where are you going to dump the heat that is generated by not only the vehicle itself, but the cooling system as well?

There is also the issue of what IR signature you are tying to emulate... The empty sky behind you as seen by a sea-skimming missile or the cold ocean below you as seen by a missile doing a plunging attack? You cannot emulate both so you will show up on something. There is also the issue of newer seekers evolving into Multi-Spectral in nature to defeat this type of single-mode seeker defeat camo.

Last, but not least, movement. How would you compensate quick enough for wave action and its effect on the background heat signature depending on what angle the seeker is looking from.

Given all of that you will soon realize that hiding one's IR signature based on unmoving land background vs the ever-changing seascape means this will not be put to sea any time soon.
Last edited by SpudmanWP on 01 Jun 2012, 07:07, edited 1 time in total.
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archeman

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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 07:04

this will not be put to sea nay time soon

You may well be correct Spud, this type of tech won't look like the near 100% coverage sales examples we have seen for land equipment.
But often when addressing signature reduction, the task is approached incrementally.
Identify those areas of the vessel that generate the greatest signature from a likely threat direction and go about addressing those areas first rather than trying to pull off a Philadelphia experiment from a thermal perspective.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 07:08

I agree that this is the likely first application of the tech. It reminds me of the leading edge cooling of the F-22/35 wings.
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moon_light

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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 19:20

SpudmanWP wrote:IR management has one drawback... Where are you going to dump the heat that is generated by not only the vehicle itself, but the cooling system as well?

There is also the issue of what IR signature you are tying to emulate... The empty sky behind you as seen by a sea-skimming missile or the cold ocean below you as seen by a missile doing a plunging attack? You cannot emulate both so you will show up on something. There is also the issue of newer seekers evolving into Multi-Spectral in nature to defeat this type of single-mode seeker defeat camo.

Last, but not least, movement. How would you compensate quick enough for wave action and its effect on the background heat signature depending on what angle the seeker is looking from.

Given all of that you will soon realize that hiding one's IR signature based on unmoving land background vs the ever-changing seascape means this will not be put to sea any time soon.

but almost every IIR anti ship missile are scene matching ( target's image stored in the missile ) so if the target ir signature can be change these missile will be useless
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neptune

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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 21:43

[quote="moon_light... so if the target ir signature can be change these missile will be useless[/quote]

Raytheon has a proven Tri-Mode seeker for missles. SDB II's seeker fuses millimeter-wave radar, uncooled imaging infrared (IIR) and semiactive laser sensors on a single gimbal.

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lamoey

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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 23:05

neptune wrote:
Raytheon has a proven Tri-Mode seeker for missles. SDB II's seeker fuses millimeter-wave radar, uncooled imaging infrared (IIR) and semiactive laser sensors on a single gimbal.

You can't run and you can't hide! :)


:lol: A three pronged fork seem just like your choice of weapon, o great Neptune
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moon_light

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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 23:42

neptune wrote:Raytheon has a proven Tri-Mode seeker for missles. SDB II's seeker fuses millimeter-wave radar, uncooled imaging infrared (IIR) and semiactive laser sensors on a single gimbal.

You can't run and you can't hide! :)

that seem a good ideas but only JAGM and sdb II used tri-mode seeker ,JAGM have very short range , sdb II only have long range when released from high altitude , not to mention that it is very slow ( in an anti ship mission i think the F-35 must fly at low altitude to reduce detection range " radar horizon ", the low RCS of F-35 means not thing as ships often have very big and low band radar )
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1st503rdsgt

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Unread post02 Jun 2012, 01:22

Good seekers have a way of showing up in places besides their original platform.
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arkadyrenko

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Unread post02 Jun 2012, 03:29

If its a tri-mode seeker, that's all well and good, until it becomes obvious that the ship will be using aggressive radar jamming, chaff clouds, and decoys to divert the radar signal. Or, they'll have radar jamming combined with IR flares in the middle of the chaff cloud to provide an alternate target.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post02 Jun 2012, 03:37

IIR seekers are virtually immune to flares and chaff is useless vs mmw radar.
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moon_light

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Unread post02 Jun 2012, 05:28

SpudmanWP wrote:IIR seekers are virtually immune to flares and chaff is useless vs mmw radar.

not really it true that for IIR seeker and MMW radar it is easy to distinguish between chaff , flare and the real target :? however chaff and flares can also be used to shield the target ( block the vision of the enemy seeker ) rather than just create a new target
Last edited by moon_light on 02 Jun 2012, 06:01, edited 1 time in total.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post02 Jun 2012, 06:09

That is a thermal camera, not an IIR imager.

Remember that it is IIR with MMW so if you blind one, the other backs it up.

Besides, all your missile has to do is aim for the center of the mass (if both seekers are jammed and it is not getting GPS updates from a F-35) and it will likely score a hit.
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