F-22ski Just Got Later And More Expensive

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
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structuresguy

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Unread post22 May 2012, 21:29

Glad to see everyone joining the party. Interesting thing is if the Russians are having cost overruns and set backs I wonder how the Chinese are fairing. I know the realistic limits of thier capabilities and that goes without saying. More to come I imagine.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairf ... 20522.aspx
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tacf-x

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Unread post22 May 2012, 21:43

The Indian FGFA was delayed too. Isn't it beautiful how the Russian aviation fanbois (and Kopp's) beliefs that the Pak-Fa was going to number in the thousands by the 2020s is falling apart as we speak?
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popcorn

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Unread post22 May 2012, 22:24

Yeah, and that's just for the basic aircraft not barring further delays.. doesn't include the avionics/mission systems..
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popcorn

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Unread post22 May 2012, 22:24

Yeah, and that's just for the basic aircraft not barring further delays.. doesn't include the avionics/mission systems..
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jetnerd

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Unread post22 May 2012, 22:58

Hmm.. "ready for production in 2019", add 3 years for mission systems, a couple more (optimistically) before any squadron declares IOC. That would put them 20 years behind the F-22's IOC date of Dec. '05.

Wonder how far along our 6th gen fighter will be by then? :twisted:
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shingen

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Unread post22 May 2012, 23:31

I was told that Russian engineers and scientists work for love of the motherland rather than love of money as the US engineers do.

I was also told that the T-50 would be produced in numbers and invalidate the F-35.


BTW, I was looking at some pictures of the T-50. The part of the aircraft structure with the engines in the rear appears to be bare metal. Is that just unpainted metal or is that the engine itself?

If it is the engine itself, what is the plan? Give up on IR LO or add weight and drag with some additional aircraft structure?

Oh wait, I know. The Russians have some plasma stealth thingy that makes it not matter, just like the T-10 would be able to devastate the Raptor and F-35 with radar plasma stealth.
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Scorpion1alpha

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Unread post22 May 2012, 23:45

structuresguy wrote:Interesting thing is if the Russians are having cost overruns and set backs I wonder how the Chinese are fairing.


I've said it before and I'll say it again: If anyone thinks that just copying the shape of the F-22 will give you a stealthy fighter with it's performance, they are just kidding themselves. There is a heck of a lot more that makes up the F-22 and it isn't easy building this plane, for a reason.

Who out there is surprised that Russia and China are having difficulties? To those people, just the amount of T-50s and J-20s that exist and are flying should tell you something.
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munny

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Unread post23 May 2012, 00:47

The t-50's flying at the moment amount to 0. They've been grounded since last August since 51 experienced terminal structural cracking.
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shingen

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Unread post23 May 2012, 01:00

This puts the F-35 issues in better perspective. Sure, the techniques of engineering get better but they keep giving the guys harder problems. Seems like everyone struggles at the bleeding dge.
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river_otter

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Unread post23 May 2012, 14:07

This actually makes me more optimistic about Sukhoi's chances. A nice healthy spoonful of reality could help the PAK-FA become real itself.

Yes, it will be very expensive to build a modern aircraft with advanced capabilities (even if those capabilities fall well short of the Raptor). And yes, it will take a long time to work out the bugs in a gaggle of technologies they barely have a grasp of, and no experience in. By being honest with themselves and Uncle Vladimir about this, they take a healthy step towards getting the space and funding they need to build the best PAK-FA they're capable of.

The only real risk is the Indians will get fed up enough with the delays or cost to seriously negotiate for some F35s instead. Sukhoi really needs their money to finish this project.
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popcorn

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Unread post24 May 2012, 07:10

I'm wondering how much of an advance the T-50 represents over the Su-35? It's been reported that the electronics systems slated for the T-50 have been implemented in the Su-35.
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popcorn

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Unread post24 May 2012, 08:10

Double post
Last edited by popcorn on 24 May 2012, 15:41, edited 1 time in total.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post24 May 2012, 14:10

yeah, the claims that I hear are like saying the US put APG-77 and F119s into the F-15 and then RAM coated them.
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shingen

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Unread post24 May 2012, 14:37

Where's the AESA?

Where's the engines?

Where's the LO IRST? The radar beacon they have now won't cut it.

Where's the IR LO features?

Closer to F-22 or closer to Silent Eagle?

It looks like a "stealth fighter" when you first look at it but I'm not sure after really analyzing it.
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wrightwing

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Unread post24 May 2012, 15:19

The T-50 should be faster and more manueverable. How much more advanced the avionics are, is anybody's guess. It'll also have a considerably better RCS than a Flanker. It sounds more like a well equipped Typhoon/Rafale class aircraft, with a better RCS.
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