haavarla wrote:He stated that a fully stalled jet would loose control, normaly in roll direction, and sometimes in Yaw direction. He mention it as a general rule, not specificly the Flanker on a display..
haavarla wrote:What mostly happen is that one wing stall before the other, starts roll over and then u loose the roll control. Quite simple really.
Thats what there is to it. This was my earlier statment above.
LOL kid, Mr.Farley isn't "any BAe test pilot", but a very experienced "driver" and he can say what he said.
Where does he talk about asymmetrical stall?
haavarla wrote:So now i can't quote or use his quote as sources to prove you wrong, or prove my point?
We... definately could eat up anything the Airforce or Navy could throw at us at the time. And thats without using the Phoenix. The very best anyone ever did against us was to die 4 to 1. Elite Airforce squandron out of Japan. Normally they died at 7 to 1 to 12 to 1.
(I got to watch from the TACTs trailer!) One tactic in four on four combat, developed over months on the range and at sea was to close until a set range was reached, (20 nm?), just inside direct aquisition by the zoomies onboard radars, kill their *own* radars to hide, reverse course and accelerate away.
The Zoomies would get all "Woo hoo!" and give pursuit. The Tomcats would get 30 nm of seperation between them and their pursuit, out of visual and the F-15's radar range, (at the time) then the two on the left would break left and the two on the right would break right and they would do wide thirty mile turns at high speed.
The Zoomies of course, not seeing this, would continue their pursuit and then be horribly surprised when the Tomcats turned their radars back on, 10 miles out and off their port and starboard quarters. (Their biggest radar cross section). Then came the swarm of sparrows and 'winders. It was beautiful to watch.
And even you Airforce guys have to acknowledge that that is a good trick to pull. I never saw them come up with a good counter to that in my enlistment.
Now the real show here are the aircrews, of course. These guys rocked. The line up was 25% noobs and transfers from other aircraft types, 25% TopGun grads, and 50% former TopGun instructors! Giving these guys Tomcats that worked as advertised just wasn't fair. A lot of them had dodged AAA and SAMS over North Vietnam. (I was in late 70's early 80's.)
So when we fought the Airforce we hurt them. Every time. The BEST they ever did was die 4 to 1 when some elite outfits flying out of bases in Japan challenged us. 7 to 1 was average and sometimes we would just eat reservists.
The reason why I feel I can talk smack in the first place was because my squadron absolutely freakin' mauled the Air Force in every single war game excercise we went up against them in.
Navy F-14's vs. Air Force F-15's in most cases.
The very best the Air force had to offer, the forward squadrons out of Japan would die before us at a rate of four to one. State side was a constistant seven to one and Air Force reservists squadrons was twelve to one.
If any of you Zoomies want to check my math I was in VF-211 between '79 and '83. Fleet average on missile hits was 45%, my outfit averaged 103%, due to extra credit assignments, including downing an SR-71.
And then I got enough rank and rate to accompany the away team that went to Nellis Air Force Base during these excercises and was sort of amazed at how much Air Force ground crews seemed like postal workers.
Their barracks had house keepers. As in maid service.
When one of their ***** groundcrew got blown down by jet exhaust, *the pilot* got in trouble! Actually saw that happen, eyes on, twice in a week! Both times I saw it was going to happen a full minute before it did because both the ground crew guys were OBVIOUSLY not paying attention. We looked at that like arresting somebody because their teeth cut up your knuckles. Seriously guys, your on a freakin' flightline, pull your head out and pay attention! You're on a land based runway for God's Sake! I had to deal with 50 plus turning combat aircraft crammed into five acres of flightdeck!
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