AF Looking for Savings in F-35 - change seat

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spazsinbad

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Unread post15 Oct 2011, 06:18

USAF Looking for Savings in F-35 by Amy Butler at Oct/14/2011

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest

"...if the Air Force [ONLY US? - will other air forces have an option?] opts to switch away from the Martin Baker US16E design now planned for all three F-35 variants. The alternative is Goodrich’s ACES 5 seat, which is designed from the ACES 2 seat family now operating on F-16, F-15, F-22, B-1 and B-2 aircraft.

At issue for the Air Force, which is slated for now to buy 1,763 F-35As, is whether savings can be garnered through a family of systems approach to ejection seats. Some officials suggest that common training, support, maintenance and management of the seats are worth the switch for the service..."

'EJECT' :lol: at the URL JUMP!
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popcorn

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Unread post15 Oct 2011, 08:35

Too bad the potential savings are not identified. If they are substantial and can help make the program more affordable, then its probably worth doing IMO.
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Unread post15 Oct 2011, 08:44

I wonder then if other potential F-35A users get to choose? Seems a no brainer if MB already has won the competition? Bad Luck USAF.

Study Set On F-35 Alternate Ejection Seat Sep 20, 2010 By Graham Warwick

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... annel=misc

"...Goodrich is targeting only the conventional-takeoff-and-landing (CTOL) F-35A, which makes up the majority of planned JSF purchases. The company has conducted four risk-reduction sled tests of the Aces 5, Patch says.

An obstacle to introducing an alternative ejection seat into the JSF program is the cost of qualification testing. Qualifying Martin Baker’s seat to 550 kt. and the full range of pilot sizes from 103-245 lb. has taken more than 80 sled tests.

Confirming the study, a Lockheed Martin program official questions the fairness of competing only the CTOL F-35A seat when Martin-Baker has been required to qualify its seat for all JSF variants, including the most demanding short-takeoff-and-vertical landing F-35B..."

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Last edited by spazsinbad on 15 Oct 2011, 12:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post15 Oct 2011, 09:23

ACES 5 Development Story PDF: http://www.idac.co.uk/enews/articles/Ejection_Seat.pdf (0.3Mb)

Up, Up and Away ANSYS Advantage • Volume III, Issue 2, 2009
Simulation-driven innovation delivers a new ejection seat design for a military aircraft in less than 14 months...."
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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neptune

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Unread post16 Oct 2011, 01:46

[quote="spazsinbad...Some officials suggest that common training, support, maintenance and management of the seats are worth the switch for the service"...[/quote]

Commonality also works for the A/F with all of the logistics for the other ACES seats on their bases. The less than half of the JSF order, (today) will rarely if ever stop at an AF base other than for fuel. Their regular basing will be at bases with other Martin/ Baker types in residence. With only 40+ a/c built, this is a good time for the AF to raise the always legitimate question of saving money. The only sour apples in this is the M/B stockholders! :cry: :lol:
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Unread post18 Oct 2011, 01:11

Ya know, if the USAF REALLY want to cut costs, the could just mount the seat on rails, and strap one of these to the back of the seat. One huge bonus feature to this method, the Search & Rescue folks would have NO trouble seeing where you ejected!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJQwvZsex0k

Just my :2c: Do I have some cost cutting ideas or what?
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Unread post21 Oct 2011, 20:20

Goodrich Faces Egress From Ejection Seat Biz Oct 21, 2011 By Amy Butler

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... e=Goodrich Faces Egress From Ejection Seat Biz [MuchMOREatJUMP]

"Air Combat Command (ACC) officials are planning within two weeks to present findings to U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz on whether the service can save money if it opts for a Goodrich ejection seat, rather than the Martin-Baker seat selected in 2001.

ACC, which will manage U.S. Air Force F-35As once they enter the fleet, commissioned the study last November from Booz Allen Hamilton to “discover whether meaningful cost savings might be realized by replacing the U.K.-made Martin-Baker US-16E ejection system with the Goodrich ACES 5” in the F-35,...

...As with any modification to the single-engine, stealthy Joint Strike Fighter, the Air Force would have to pay the upfront cost of testing and integrating the ACES 5 seat if it opts to follow that route. This is the rule for all nine international JSF partners, which have agreed to encourage as much commonality as possible and to capture economies of scale for customers....

...Cost factors
While cost was a major factory in the study, Booz Allen Hamilton also explored the reliability of both the ACES 5 and Martin-Baker US-16E ejection systems. ACC officials acknowledge that “overall, ACES has been a safe and reliable system.”

Lockheed Martin selected the Martin-Baker system in 2001; Lockheed beat Boeing for the F-35 development that same year....

...The findings of the ejection seat alternatives study, as well as a recommendation on how to move forward, are slated to be briefed to the Joint Strike Fighter Executive Steering Board, senior general officers and civilians from the member countries in December."
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/

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