U.S. says no new F-16's to Taiwan

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tbarlow

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Unread post22 Sep 2011, 07:42

U.S. says no new F-16's to Taiwan

TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) — A U.S. decision not to sell Taiwan new F-16 fighter jets is being seen by many U.S. allies in Asia as a sign of China's growing clout.

[...]

The top U.S. diplomat for East Asia, Kurt Campbell, publicly confirmed in New York on Wednesday that the Obama administration will upgrade Taiwan's existing fleet of F-16s, postponing for now the sale of new models that Taipei sought. The decision brought a swift, angry denunciation from Beijing, where Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Zhijun summoned U.S. Ambassador Gary Locke to warn that exchanges between the militaries, security cooperation and overall ties will suffer.

[...]

Even before news of the decision became final, Republican Sen. John Cornyn of Texas, where the Lockheed Martin plant that would have built the new F-16s is located, described it as a slap in the face to a strong ally, and Howard Berman, the ranking Democrat on the House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee, called it a "half-measure."

[...]

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/us-no-taiwan-arms ... 14713.html
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Gamera

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Unread post22 Sep 2011, 08:17

Arms sale to Taiwan may fray China ties
Monday, September 19, 2011

The study concludes that Taiwan's military should buy short-takeoff and vertical-landing jets such as the British-design AV-8B Harrier jump jet or the new F-35B vertical-takeoff version, according to the officials familiar with the aircraft.

[...]

Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... #pagebreak


ROCAF AV-8B or F-35B?
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marco9

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Unread post23 Sep 2011, 02:56

tbarlow wrote:
[b]
Even before news of the decision became final, Republican Sen. John Cornyn of Texas, where the Lockheed Martin plant that would have built the new F-16s is located, described it as a slap in the face to a strong ally, and Howard Berman, the ranking Democrat on the House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee, called it a "half-measure."

[...]

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/us-no-taiwan-arms ... 14713.html


There you go! It's all about US jobs again. Nothing to do with actual defense needs.
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discofishing

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Unread post23 Sep 2011, 06:44

There you go! It's all about US jobs again. Nothing to do with actual defense needs.


We're selling Patriot missiles and Apache helicopters to China, defense needs are still there. I haven't read anything about opposition to selling Taiwan those platforms. I could see those as being more for defense and less of a threat to China. I do believe the PAC-3 system has the range to knock down Chinese aircraft over their mainland and Apaches can certainly conduct attacks on the mainland as well. So, you never know. I would imagine China is aware of the extended range capabilities of newer F-16Cs given they are compatible with CFTs. I would say that is the biggest threat to the mainland. Overall, I think it's mixture of everything, politics, jobs, and defense needs. We can't be everywhere at once. If China decides to go after Taiwan, they need enough hardware to repel them until allies arrive.
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Gamera

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Unread post23 Sep 2011, 07:03

] Apaches can certainly conduct attacks on the mainland as well.

The Taiwan Strait looks a bit wide for attack heloes to cross, IMO.

] We're selling Patriot missiles and Apache helicopters to China,

USA sold Black Hawk helicopters to China.
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discofishing

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Unread post23 Sep 2011, 23:37

The Taiwan Strait looks a bit wide for attack heloes to cross, IMO.


Not with extra fuel. They'd make it just fine, but would have a hell of a time crossing the strait without being detected.

I seriously doubt many Blackhawks are flying. They've been denied parts for a long time.
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java_aggie

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Unread post28 Sep 2011, 18:19

Would the Russian agree to sell their latest version of the Flanker family to the ROC? ROC have enough $ to spend - and I would think the Russians are upset enough with the PRC stealing their IP by building J-11.

It would add another logistical burden to the ROC AF, but they've done that before when they purchased the Mirages.
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pfo

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Unread post02 Oct 2012, 19:39

This retrofit program will include the addition of an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, embedded global positioning, as well as upgrades to the electronic warfare and other avionics systems of Taiwan's F-16s.
Lockheed Martin was awarded a contract valued up to $1.85 billion by the U.S. Government to initiate the upgrade of 145 block 20 F-16A/B aircraft for the Republic of China (RoC).
Why so cheap? Dumping?
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neurotech

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Unread post02 Oct 2012, 21:24

java_aggie wrote:Would the Russian agree to sell their latest version of the Flanker family to the ROC? ROC have enough $ to spend - and I would think the Russians are upset enough with the PRC stealing their IP by building J-11.

It would add another logistical burden to the ROC AF, but they've done that before when they purchased the Mirages.

There is some complex politics going on here. Apparently, parts are expensive and single-source for the Mirage jets.

It's all about $$$ and technology. Russia did comparatively well financially out of the Su-30MKI deal, and got the benefit of funded joint development. I don't think the PRC flanker sales resulted in any technology or major financial benefit to Russia.

I still think the Rafale with major ToT could be the way to go, as it doesn't rely on US technology. The Taiwanese are capable of local production, and have advanced electronics/avionics manufacturing capabilities as well. The Rafale F3 block have decent ground attack capability too.
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 05:59

I still think the Rafale with major ToT could be the way to go, as it doesn't rely on US technology. The Taiwanese are capable of local production, and have advanced electronics/avionics manufacturing capabilities as well. The Rafale F3 block have decent ground attack capability too.



Or they could save money and get more F-16s which might be possible of there is an administration change in the Whitehouse. Seriously, will Rafales be that much better than the F-16s once they've been upgraded? Would they even be better than brand new F-16Vs? Nope!
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superfulcrum

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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 06:12

Depends what level of influence the PRC has on whoever is in the white house(it is a bipartisan problem with both democrats & republicans regularly bowing to chinese pressure)

Taiwan/ROC can always get, if denied any new US-built fighter jets, Gripens & Rafales(unless the PRC has significant political influence over both Sweden & France too).
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PhillyGuy

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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 09:23

Yes but Sweden and France are not going to be the ones rushing to Taiwan when the Chinese invade. It's less about securing hard body platforms than it is about securing guarantees in case of conflict.
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1st503rdsgt

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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 17:00

On the one hand, Taiwan has a 1st-world economy and serious defence needs, making it a terrific market for high-end weapon systems. On the other hand, China has a great deal of economic leverage over potential sellers; and there's also the matter of close cultural/social connections to the mainland, making Taiwan a serious intellectual property risk.
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Unread post11 Oct 2012, 09:42

I wonder what the chances are a new administration in DC would allow new build F-16Cs to go to Taiwan. Upgrading Taiwan's current F-16s along with letting them have new ones would be beneficial on so many levels. What's the range of a Su-30 compared to an F-16 with CFTs?

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