USMC F-35B Talking Points - Solomon

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spazsinbad

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Unread post18 Mar 2011, 12:58

USMC F-35 Talking Points

Go to first link to read about 'talking points'. PDF is only 57Kb and 3.5 pages but worthwhile. Joining Scribd is probably necessary for this download.

http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.com/2011/ ... oints.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/51012895/USMC ... todown=pdf (57Kb)
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Unread post18 Mar 2011, 18:46

[quote="spazsinbad"]USMC F-35 Talking Points

Go to first link to read about 'talking points'....[\quote]

Interesting document, it will require a re-read and updating of my references. But....my opinion, the F-35B has as much chance of landing on a canoe as a CVN. It may come aboard in an emergency but it will be bundled-up "smoking" and dropped by elevator to the hanger deck before the pilot can crawl out. TACAIR is the way of the "Bee", no doubt. Its ISR capabilities should make a huge impact on the way Marines maneuver in the field. Snakes, rotors, Harvest Hawk and the Bee will continue to make the Marines an imposing adversary to the unfriendly. :)
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Unread post20 Mar 2011, 22:37

Another talking point: "The U.S. [use] of the EA-18G has also opened the door for other aircraft to start operating over Libya. For instance, U.S. Marine Corps AV-8B Harriers, deployed on the USS Kearsarge, are involved in operations." [No ground troops to support though.]

Boeing's Growler In the Fight Posted by Robert Wall at mar/20/2011

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest

"The U.S. Navy's EA-18G electronic attack aircraft are now also involved in the fight over Libya.

On the initial day of fighting, the U.S. and its coalition allies operated without jamming support, in part because the heavy reliance on cruise missiles did not require such support.

The initial wave of strikes, with more than 110 Tomahawk and other cruise missiles, targeted the integrated air defenses to make it easier for combat aircraft to operate over Libyan air space. But even if the Libyan IADS has been degraded, that does not mean the risk from pop-up surface to air missile firings has been entirely eliminated, prompting the interest in having jamming support.

The operation over Libya marks the combat debut for the EA-18G, which is eventually due to replace entirely the EA-6B in U.S. Navy inventory.

The U.S. of the EA-18G has also opened the door for other aircraft to start operating over Libya. For instance, U.S. Marine Corps AV-8B Harriers, deployed on the USS Kearsarge, are involved in operations."
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Unread post21 Mar 2011, 02:43

Navy and Marine Corps aircraft strike Libya as part of Operation Odyssey Dawn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDWHgbkz ... r_embedded

"Uploaded by USNavyVisualNews on Mar 20, 2011

MEDITERRANEAN SEA (March 20, 2011) U.S. Marine Corps AV/-8B Harrier jets launch from the flight deck of the amphibious assault ship USS Kearsarge (LHD 3) in preparation for Operation Odyssey Dawn missions. Later, an SH-60 Sea hawk helicopter, CH-53E Super Stallion, MV-22 Osprey and U.S. Marine Corps AV/-8B Harrier jets land on the flight deck of the amphibious assault ship USS Kearsarge (LHD 3) following Operation Odyssey Dawn missions. Joint Task Force Odyssey Dawn is the U.S. Africa Command task force established to provide operational and tactical command and control of U.S. military forces supporting the international response to the unrest in Libya and enforcement of United Nations Security Council Resolution (UNSCR) 1973. (U.S. Navy video by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Mike Lenart/Released)"
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Unread post22 Mar 2011, 19:33

Libyan Operation Shows Need For Marine Version Of F-35 by Daniel Goure, Ph.D. - March 22, 2011

http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/libya ... a=1&c=1171

"The coalition air operation against Muammar Ghadaffi has demonstrated the enormous capacity of the U.S. military. Precision weapons took out Ghadaffi's surface-to-air missile sites and aircraft shelters. E/A-18G Growlers jammed Libyan electronics. F-15s and F-16s conducted both counter-air and surface-attack missions. Unmanned systems, most likely the Global Hawk, provided critical reconnaissance and surveillance.

One system that is providing a critical service in this operation is the Harrier jump jet. This Marine Corps close support aircraft has been operating from U.S. large deck amphibious warfare ships in the Mediterranean. Without an aircraft carrier in the area the Harriers are the only system available to conduct responsive air missions. The Harriers provide prompt air power from the coalition platform closest to the Libyan coast.

But the Harrier is aging and must be replaced. The planned replacement is the F-35B short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) version of the Joint Strike Fighter. The F-35B will have numerous improvements over the Harrier, notably stealthiness, advanced avionics, improved sensors, and a more powerful engine. This last feature is particularly important because it means the F-35B can carry a significantly greater bomb load to a greater distance than the Harrier.

The current conflict clearly demonstrates the continuing value of the capability the F-35B will provide. The ability to operate from ships other than aircraft carriers, from airfields with short runways or from expedient airbases is of tremendous value in a period of uncertainty and local conflicts."
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Unread post23 Mar 2011, 02:30

If you're desperate enough then you can find a NEED for just about anything based upon nearly any event or occasion.

Crossing The English Channel Shows Need For Marine Version Of F-35
Mediocre Hygiene Results Shows Need For Marine Version Of F-35
Snowstorm Over Sacramento Shows Need For Marine Version Of F-35
High Price of Tomatoes Shows Need For Marine Version Of F-35

It's simple to justify what they WANT. Someone just needs to say NO.
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Unread post23 Mar 2011, 02:31

'madrat' then you are the NAYsayer. Cool. I'll wait for the USMC to take notice.
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Unread post23 Mar 2011, 02:38

No F-35Bs yet but youse get the drift....

Marines rescue downed pilot after fighter jet crashes in Libya Mar/22/2011 By Staff, Headquarters Marine Corps

http://www.marines.mil/unit/hqmc/Pages/ ... Libya.aspx

"ARLINGTON, Va. — Marines from the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit rescued a U.S. Air Force pilot downed in Libya March 22.

The F-15E Strike Eagle crashed in northeast Libya March 21 while flying in support of Operation Odyssey Dawn, the joint coalition enforcing U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973 to protect the Libyan people from the country’s ruler.

Using two AV/8B Harriers, two MV-22 Ospreys and two CH-53E Super Stallions carrying a quick reaction force, the Camp Lejeune, N.C., based Marines conducted a Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and Personnel mission to recover the pilot.

The Marine aircraft began launching off the the USS Kearsarge, which was roughly 130 nautical miles from the pilot - within 30 minutes of the crash - according to a senior Marine officer in the Pentagon.

Marine officials attributed the quick reaction time to the versatility of the Osprey. "Total time from launch to return - 90 minutes roundtrip. That's what an Osprey gets you, that speed," the official said.

According to official reports, the Harrier close air support element dropped two laser-guided 500-pound bombs in the area in support of the downed pilot. One MV-22 Osprey landed and extracted the pilot.

Once extracted, the aircraft returned to the USS Kearsarge with the pilot. Navy Lt. Lauren A. Weber, a doctor with the 26th MEU, said the pilot returned in good condition.

The cause of the crash is still under investigation and the names of the pilots will be released pending next-of-kin notification.

The recovery force remains on standby while aviation assets are conducting operations in any environment. All seven Marine expeditionary units are trained, equipped and ready to conduct similar missions when called upon."
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Unread post23 Mar 2011, 02:49

spazsinbad wrote:According to official reports, the Harrier close air support element dropped two laser-guided 500-pound bombs in the area in support of the downed pilot. One MV-22 Osprey landed and extracted the pilot.


Uh Oh. Sounds like they really did kill some rebels that were trying to help the pilot. How did the AV-8 pilots know which side they were bombing?
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Unread post23 Mar 2011, 02:54

That is why they need the F-35B.
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Unread post23 Mar 2011, 03:08

spazsinbad wrote:That is why they need the F-35B.


How would that help the situation? Have the Rebels been issued Blue Force Trackers and IR patches? In Iraq, it was hard enough to tell who was who on the ground unless they were actually shooting at us or digging in the side of a road. A supercomputer the size of a house can't even tell the difference between an apple and a tomato without a DNA sample, so I doubt anything on the F-35 will make it any easier to tell which civilian-dressed brown people with AK-47s are the enemy.
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Unread post23 Mar 2011, 04:27

If that is the case then why make it an issue - even IF it is true? Any source to suggest your claim?
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Unread post23 Mar 2011, 05:11

spazsinbad wrote:If that is the case then why make it an issue - even IF it is true? Any source to suggest your claim?


Eh, just putting two and two together really. The plane apparently went down in a rebel-held area because the other crewmember was assisted by rebels that didn't get blown up by AV-8s. Plus, I've kind of seen how Marines work (bless their hearts, they try so hard, and it's always better to have them on your side). If they get word of a possible VBIED in a white sedan (half the sedans are white), they just start shooting every white car they see (my squad leader actually saw this happen). The Marine unit that we relieved in 2004 also had a bad habit of shooting at anyone on a roof, firefight or no firefight, even though the roof is basically another room of the house in Iraq.

We did our share of mean sh!t as well, but we didn't get shot at as often because we didn't pi$$ off the locals with quite so much indescrimanant killing.

My guess is that they observed some armed combatants moving toward the Eagle driver and decided not to take any chances. I'd probably do the same, but this kind of misunderstanding is why we shouldn't be involved in the first place.
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Unread post23 Mar 2011, 05:13

DP, sorry.
Last edited by 1st503rdsgt on 23 Mar 2011, 07:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post23 Mar 2011, 06:19

Your explanation does not hold water in the case you try to claim happened. I would rather you did not guess. Certainly if there is evidence otherwise then go find it I reckon - don't just make wild fanciful claims IMHO.
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