PW F100-PW-200 nozzle construction

Always wondered why the F-16 has a tailhook, or how big a bigmouth F-16's mouth really is ? Find it out here !
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F16VIPER

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Unread post16 Aug 2010, 12:03

Hi all:

Do you know the material used to build the flaps inside the petals, the nozzle petals and the metal ring where the engine meets the fuselage. Is the ring on the right stainless steel and what grade.

Regards
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That_Engine_Guy

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Unread post17 Aug 2010, 04:01

F16VIPER wrote:Do you know the material used to build the flaps inside the petals the nozzle petals and the metal ring where the engine meets the fuselage.

The convergent/divergent segments and seals/seal liners are made of a primarily Nickle or Titanium alloy; (Most over 50% by volume Ni or Ti depending on the specific part) they have hard-coated edges in some cases where they interface, this is gray/rough in color. The rough/white surface treatment on the inside or 'gas-path' face is a ceramic thermal barrier coating, typically a zirconium dioxide. (The black color on any/all surfaces is 'combustion products' or soot) The liner inside the augmentor duct is also coated mostly by the same coating. The coating typically wears away in areas of contact, it can also erode and/or flake off in any amount on all parts coated.

F16VIPER wrote:Is the ring on the right stainless steel and what grade.

No stainless steel is too heavy.

The 'nozzle support assembly' is a primarily Titanium alloy, in the 80% Ti range (very expensive) The external nozzle segments aka Turkey Feathers are about 80% Ti as well.

The Turkey Feathers have a spray lubricant in the area of contact/overlap (the area that looks painted dark gray), as do most of the other parts where they make contact with other segments/seals/linkages/clamps. Pretty much everything that touches or rubs is covered with this lubricant; FelPro C-300 is the trade name. This is the primary color of the 'inside' of the nozzle, opposite of the white side, under the turkey feathers.

PW-100 (minus turkey feathers) PW-200, PW-220, and PW-229 nozzles are all similar in design/appearance except for the PW-229 which has black carbon-fiber turkey feathers.

What you were looking for?

Keep 'em flyin' :thumb:
TEG
[Airplanes are] near perfect, all they lack is the ability to forgive.
— Richard Collins
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F16VIPER

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Unread post17 Aug 2010, 10:54

Thank you TEG, your answer was very informative.

- What threw me was that both, the nozzle petals and the support assembly are constructed out of titanium alloy but look different in colour.
- My bad about the nomenclature of the engine.
- So when the engine is new, the "gas-path" (duct) is supposed to be white due to the thermal barrier coating.

TEG:
YF-16 photo: Would you know if the bare metal ring against the white painted fuselage is part of the engine or the fuselage and what the material would be.
The nozzle looks different to the one used in the F100 engine incorporated in subsequent aircraft.

.
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Guysmiley

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Unread post17 Aug 2010, 15:25

That looks like a photo of 72-1567 hanging in the Hampton Roads History Center, which was rebuilt as the CCV testbed in '75. Not sure if during that conversion it got a different engine or not. Apparently it was damaged twice (!) due to hard landings in '76 and '77.
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Unread post17 Aug 2010, 17:30

F16VIPER wrote:What threw me was that both, the nozzle petals and the support assembly are constructed out of titanium alloy but look different in colour.

Just because they're both ~80% Ti doesn't mean they are the exact same alloy, or have the same type of treatments. One may be an 'AMS###' alloy while the other a 'PWA###' there are many different groups of alloys in the same 'material group' according to 00-25-113.

The two components you're refering too both belong to USAF Material Group 60 which is: AMS 4900, 4901, 4902, 4906, 4908, 4910, 4911, 4915, 4916, 4918, 4921, 4923, 4925, 4926, 4927, 4928, 4929, 4930, 4935, 4938, 4941, 4942, 4943, 4951, 4953, 4954, 4955, 4956, 4965, 4966, 4967, 4972, 4973, 4975, 4976, 4977, 7460, 7461, 7498; PWA 91, 682, 1202, 1204, 1208, 1209, 1210, 1211, 1212, 1213, 1214, 1215, 1216, 1217-2, 1219, 1220, 1224, 1227, 1228, 1231, 1260, 1261-1, 1262, EMS 59034, 59035, FMS 1090, 1098, 1109, 1115, 3001, MIL-T-9046, or MIL-T-9047

All of which sare a common trait; 80% Ti

The metal is classified by it's group for precious metal recovery. Another example would be group 70 wich is Gold; "Gold lined, clad, plated, brazed or fabricated". Any parts containing gold like this would be grouped together for proper recycling. (and yes some of our F100 parts are group 70 too!)

Remember the 'crome' turkey feathers of the T-brids? Not cromed, just Ti turkey feathers buffed and shined until they could hold a reflection. :cool:
Now they're carbon-fiber, so no more buffing....

F16VIPER wrote:My bad about the nomenclature of the engine.

No worries there; unless you're an F100 EG you'd not likely know the proper terms for all the nozzle components. Lots of seasoned crew chiefs call all the moving parts in the nozzle 'turkey feathers' and that's not right. Only the 'external segments' are turkey feathers.

F16VIPER wrote:So when the engine is new, the "gas-path" (duct) is supposed to be white due to the thermal barrier coating.

Yes a new nozzle has lots of flat-white TBC on it's parts. The major exception are the gray convergent segment liners. The other segments, seals, liners, and combustion chamber liner are flat (rough) white.

Great example here: http://www.f-16.net/gallery_item46740.html

F16VIPER wrote:YF-16 photo: Would you know if the bare metal ring against the white painted fuselage is part of the engine or the fuselage and what the material would be.

Hard telling in that YF-16 photo. On a production F-16 that panel is made from aluminum and is part of the fuselage. It is a fairing from the fuselage to the nozzle support that is removed to remove/install the engine. That one appears to be titanium to me, and has a 'V' at the bottom that isn't normally present on the production models of the Viper. It is typically painted to match the aircraft's camo scheme.

F16VIPER wrote:The nozzle looks different to the one used in the F100 engine incorporated in subsequent aircraft.

Yes that nozzle looks different from production PW-200 or PW-220 nozzle assemblies. The turkey feathers have tapered aft edges where they attach to the divergent segments; production models are square at the aft edge. They also appear to have a slightly different shape to them overall. It could possibly be a F100-PW-100 that was modified for the YF-16 program, or it could be a YF100-PW-200. (YF = 'prototype turbofan') Perhaps a 'pre-production' PW-200? It appears to be installed incorrectly though; close inspection at about 8 O'clock looks like the drain hole for the nozzle support. This should be at 6 O'clock (Bottom dead center). This could mean that aircraft does not have a whole engine, and/or the nozzle wasn't properly indexed when installed to 'appear' as an engine.

Keep 'em flyin' :thumb:
TEG
[Airplanes are] near perfect, all they lack is the ability to forgive.
— Richard Collins
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F16VIPER

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Unread post18 Aug 2010, 10:06

That looks like a photo of 72-1567 hanging in the Hampton Roads History Center, which was rebuilt as the CCV testbed in '75. Not sure if during that conversion it got a different engine or not. Apparently it was damaged twice (!) due to hard landings in '76 and '77.


Hi Guysmiley: Yes it is, and would love to go to the museum to see it and take lots of photos.

TEG:
Awsome information, you almost left nothing for me to ask about the topic!
Tell me, is it possible the brownie/blueish, burnt colour of the external petals was caused by heat produced by the exhaust, or do you think it is the natural colour of the metal. It is a possibility because photos I have seen of the brand new plane have a similar tone.

Regards and thanks for your answers.
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Unread post19 Aug 2010, 00:30

F16VIPER wrote:Tell me, is it possible the brownie/blueish, burnt colour of the external petals was caused by heat produced by the exhaust, or do you think it is the natural colour of the metal. It is a possibility because photos I have seen of the brand new plane have a similar tone.

It's more likely the color from heat treatments to the metal either before after fabrication. When new parts are received they also have this color to them even if they've never seen operation. For more information look up "titanium heat treatment" through G00gle or the like.

One thing to remember though, when a new Viper rolls off the line, the engine in it already has a few hours of operation including augmentor use. Engines are tested after assembly by the manufacturer. This is to ensure they operate properly and produce the proper amount of thrust. So before an engine is ever installed into an aircraft, it will exhibit some evidence of operation. The only way to photograph a non-operated motor would be to catch it after assembly prior to test at the factory.

TEG
[Airplanes are] near perfect, all they lack is the ability to forgive.
— Richard Collins
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draakusa

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Unread post01 May 2018, 22:27

Oh, this brings back memories. I was a Jet Powerplant Technician working on the F100-PW-200 in the US Air Force from '83 until '87.
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Unread post03 May 2018, 18:50

Looking closer at the first pic, I am also reminded of the old "pins and tabs" that attaches the external segments to the divergent segments. This was later replaced by the (time wasting) "bolt-nut-cotter pin" configuration :bang: .
Most of us wished we could all go the way of the F-15s and delete the external segments altogether.
As far as the old -200s goes, I don't miss it at all. :wink:
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Unread post11 Nov 2018, 23:40

Hello Guys

I`m new to this forum so I'd like to introduce myself first. I`m a fullsize airline pilot and have been flying RC models ever since i can remember. Lately I've been giving the modeling more priority, especially the RC jets. I`m working on a museum scale F-4 Phantom in 1/6 scale, but also have found R&R in CAD modelling for other causes lately.

This is also what drove me here, as i am working on creating CAD nozzles for RC Jet aircraft which are accurate. They might even be interesting to aviation enthusiasts as desktop models eventually.

Anyway, one of the models i want to create is a nice nozzle set for the F-16. Having done much research on the engine options on the F-16, i have found the GE F110 to be very well documented and thus easier to model. Apparently PW is more restrictive, as i can find hardly any details on the engine out there. I have also been in contact with other modelers (including Pablo, who has made the youtube animation of the PW nozzle), but have yet to find accurate documents on the PW F100 engine nozzle.

Looking at the attachment, one of the main difficulties has been getting good and accurate dimensions. Length of the nozzle segment (C, either laterally or as slant measurement), feather diameter (B) and exhaust diameter (A, both closed and open) are the measurements that are key.

bemassung f100.JPG


Also in the drawing is "L", which i want to define as the distance of the Turkeyfeathers between the mounting holes in the aft engine ring to the mounting holes in the paddles. Upon moving, this distance changes. There has got to be a telescopic element between the mounts, and i am wondering how this mount looks and whether it is on the engine side or on the paddle size.

I`m sure there are many here who have much better knowledge, or even access, than I can have, so I kindly ask for any help you might be able to come up with. I`ll gladly share what i come up with once I get the drawing and animation under way.

Thanks and very best regards
Hank

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