JSF-B test pilot (one year ago) asserts it is easy to fly

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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spazsinbad

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Unread post27 Jun 2009, 01:34

This video is more than one year old - what is interesting (not heard by me before anyway) are the comments from 7 minutes 35 seconds in by the test pilot (ex-RN Harrier pilot of reknown) that the JSF-B will easy to fly (we assume in STOVL mode also) so that pilot's will not be concerned with how to fly it by how to OPERATE all the good stuff inside:

F-35 Test - STOVL First Flight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwvtCE6rgjc

"F-35 Test STOVL First Flight - June 11, 2008."

Recently there have been questions about the RN FAA developing 'running landings' for this technique to be used on their new carriers being built. This 'new' landing will allow more 'bringback' of expensive unexpended weapons OR fuel OR both. JPALS will allow automatic landings most likely but like the USN today pilots will carry out their own landings to remain current.

Another issue about 'heating the flight deck' seems to be raised unnecessarily lately also. What do you all think about these issues? 'Running Landing' development:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... r-jsf.html
&
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... h-jsf.html
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Corsair1963

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Unread post27 Jun 2009, 04:36

Funny, the Test Pilots all love the F-35...... :crazypilot:
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popcorn

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Unread post27 Jun 2009, 05:20

Corsair1963 wrote:Funny, the Test Pilots all love the F-35...... :crazypilot:


Yeah, of all the nerve.. its widely known that its a worthless piece of unproven trash.. :shock:
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spazsinbad

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Unread post27 Jun 2009, 18:25

JPALS (Joint Precision Approach and Landing System) UK has companion program (UK-JPALS) UK testing STOVL implementation to support JSF. See page 19 of PDF about JPALS at:

http://acast.grc.nasa.gov/wp-content/up ... allace.pdf (4.3Mb PDF)

&

"In 2001, QinetiQ demonstrated a relative-GPS-based automatic recovery to a moving vehicle and automatic landing using the VAAC Harrier, including 4D operation - i.e. respecting both temporal and spatial constraints. This work has lead to the involvement of the team in the development of the Joint Precision Approach and Landing System (JPALS) capability for the F-35B Joint Strike Fighter.
QinetiQ's recent [May 05] ship trial aboard HMS INVINCIBLE has demonstrated the world’s first fully automatic STOVL shipboard recovery and landing."

http://www.qinetiq.com/home/newsroom/ne ... first.html
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FlightDreamz

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Unread post27 Jun 2009, 22:50

Nice video find Spazsinbad! Your flightglobal links didn't work for me however.:( I'm trying to keep a positive attitude about the F-35 (especially with future F-22 production on the rocks). I'm willing to wait until it enters service before I decide if its a "worthless piece of trash" or not (kinda harsh there Popcorn). Although I'll admit I'm not thrilled the Navy and VTOL versions don't have an internal gun.
That said the F-35B should be a big improvement over the AV-8B Harriers (I'm sure the Marines can't wait to get their hands on them).
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.— Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.
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popcorn

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Unread post28 Jun 2009, 00:28

FlightDreamz wrote:Nice video find Spazsinbad! Your flightglobal links didn't work for me however.:( I'm trying to keep a positive attitude about the F-35 (especially with future F-22 production on the rocks). I'm willing to wait until it enters service before I decide if its a "worthless piece of trash" or not (kinda harsh there Popcorn). Although I'll admit I'm not thrilled the Navy and VTOL versions don't have an internal gun.
That said the F-35B should be a big improvement over the AV-8B Harriers (I'm sure the Marines can't wait to get their hands on them).

Should have put an emoticon.. just a joke in reference to a previous thread claiming the F-35 was trash. :wink:
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spazsinbad

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Unread post28 Jun 2009, 01:39

FlightDreamz, apologies about Flight Global links - I'll check next time (they were copied from previously truncated links from these originals):

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... r-jsf.html
&
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... h-jsf.html

(These links will work now even though they look the same as the ones that did not work.)
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VarkVet

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Unread post28 Jun 2009, 08:38

You know what I saw in the video
1. Excessive vortices off the wing tips
2. Pilot voice crackling during media debrief … he was scared shitless
3. During touch down looks like the jet wants to go back up … No spoilers?

If you want to make lots of clouds, then what is the purpose of Stealth?

Just my two cents!
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Unread post28 Jun 2009, 15:09

He didn't seem scared to me- maybe just not used to cameras and interviews perhaps. It must have been exciting for him nonetheless to have first crack at a new fighter though. If it was me, I would have been doing the Snoopy dance!!!
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Beazz

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Unread post28 Jun 2009, 19:34

VarkVet wrote:You know what I saw in the video
1. Excessive vortices off the wing tips
2. Pilot voice crackling during media debrief … he was scared shitless
3. During touch down looks like the jet wants to go back up … No spoilers?

If you want to make lots of clouds, then what is the purpose of Stealth?

Just my two cents!


1: Excessive vortices? You're joking right? I went and watched the flight part 3 times to see what the heck you were talking about and the vortices range from non existent to you'd have to be right up on the plane to see there even was any. I take it you're not an F35 fan? If so, well I feel better already. If the opponents of the F35 have to try something like you just stated then you are surely grasping at straws.

2: Thats a ridiculous statement Vark. If you watched the entire video, and I am sure you did. You would gather from the first part that the pilot is a kind of reserved shy type by the interactions he had with the people getting him to and in the airplane. To state that from his voice in an interview afterwards he is scared shitless is beyond grasping at straws and not at all fait to the pilot in question.

3: Looks like the pilot was a good pilot and showed it to me. Holding the nosewheel up is a way in which pilots kind of hotdog it up. I watched planes land for 30 years and saw that a gazillion times. ESPECIALLY with military fighters. Matter fact, it was odd NOT to see one hold the nose up like he did.

4: Seems like stealth AND the ability to make clouds to hide in would be an added plus ? :lol: Good job LockMart :lmao:

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FlightDreamz

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Unread post28 Jun 2009, 21:16

VarkVet wrote:You know what I saw in the video
1. Excessive vortices off the wing tips

Okay, not to jump on a bandwagon here or flog an already dead horse but I didn't think the vortice's were excessive and a simple change in altitude would solve that problem anyway so I don't think it's a big deal. Just my :2c:

Spazsinbad, thanks for the updated links. I've heard of a rolling takeoff before, but a rolling landing on a STOVL aircraft that's a new one to me. But it might be more economical on fuel and give a better bring back capability like the article suggests. With Britain's angled deck, ski jump, among other contributions to carrier aviation I wouldn't doubt it TOO much.

And Popcorn I didn't get the joke:doh:, hope there's no hard feelings.

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strykerxo

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Unread post28 Jun 2009, 21:26

Can someone explain to me why vorex generation is a problem? I could see maybe that it could give away your position.

Years ago they did a lot of research on vortex generation, starting with an F-102 or 106 fitted with a vortex leading edge. If I remember right the vortices helped with controlibility and manueverability. What I think is some of the black magic that went into the F-22/35.
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LmRaptor

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Unread post28 Jun 2009, 22:57

Lots of benefits and disadvantages result from vortex generation! Vortex generation is a fundamental principle behind how aircraft generate lift; getting a vortex to shed smoothly from the trailing edge of a wing is determined by an aircraft specific degree of circulation in its shed vortices - this is known as the Kutta condition.

Disadvantages in a nutshell include losing lift through the creation of downwash, increasing drag, serious stability issues when the tip vortexs interact with formation flying aircraft/control surfaces of your aircraft - structural issues may arise with the wing, vibration/flutter issues, loss of control surface authority etc.
Last edited by LmRaptor on 29 Jun 2009, 01:18, edited 1 time in total.
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VarkVet

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Unread post29 Jun 2009, 00:52

You know a little constructive criticism isn’t going to hurt anything.

I said it before and will say it again National Security is my number 1 priority and I would love to see this Fighter succeed! The F-35 has some really big shoes to fill replacing multiple aging fighters.

Right now the F-16 is the best thing since sliced bread and newer variants are available. You can raise my taxes all you want to put Block 52+ and 60’s on the ramp like yesterday.

Sometimes my Bud Light posts don’t go down so well, and after review :beer:

I know visual vortices have a lot to do with moisture content of the air.

After reviewing the film again maybe he wasn’t shaken … but I thought he had a striking resemblance of Charlie Watts!

Aero braking was taking place and in the STOL mode she will be down and stopped very quickly!

I’m no aerodynamicist, these were just items I had questions about?
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FlightDreamz

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Unread post29 Jun 2009, 01:13

VarkVet
Sometimes my Bud Light posts don’t go down so well

LOL! :notworthy: I've made more than my fair share of posts like that myself! :)
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.— Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.
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