F-16's chasing stolen Cessna

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dougmasters1

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Unread post07 Apr 2009, 16:49

Got me wondering, a Cessna 172 has a top speed of around 160KTS. How does an F-16 maintain contact with a plane going that slow? Does it have to fly in a landing configuration or something?? Or, does it make circles around it??

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VprWzl

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Unread post07 Apr 2009, 18:36

Drop the flaps and/or fly a racetrack pattern around the aircraft.
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f-16rider

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Unread post07 Apr 2009, 20:16

Could use the "alternate flap switch" or put the gear down.
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Asif

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Unread post07 Apr 2009, 21:03

Read this article at the Examiner.com as it seems to be regularly updated with feeds and embedded video.

VprWzl wrote:Drop the flaps and/or fly a racetrack pattern around the aircraft.


Some key points to take from it

Examiner.com wrote:The F16's are having to "hand-off" the mission from one crew to another due to their range, meanwhile the Cessna is capable of up to 8 hours of flight, or around 790 miles according to various sites. **During intercept operations like this, it's normal for these fast flying jets to have to set up a race track pattern to "keep up" with the slower aircraft**
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Unread post07 Apr 2009, 21:15

The Daily Mail wrote:Suicide by fighter jet: Man who stole plane and led F-16 fighter pilots on seven-hour chase WANTED to be shot down
By Mail Foreign Service
Last updated at 5:26 PM on 07th April 2009

A suicidal pilot who flew a plane into American airspace from Canada without permission was hoping to be shot down by military fighter planes.

Adam Leon was intercepted by U.S. F16 jets shortly after he crossed the border into Wisconsin.

Six hours later after flying south over the state of Illinois, the 31-year-old finally landed on a rural road in Missouri.

The state trooper who arrested Leon said on ABC's Good Morning America that the pilot told him he had hoped to be shot down.

'He made a statement that he was trying to commit suicide and he didn't have the courage to do it himself,' trooper Justin Watson said.

'And his idea was to fly the aircraft into the United States, where he would be shot down.'

Leon hitched a ride to the convenience store after landing on a highway and taxiing the plane to a side road.

Watson said Leon 'gave me no indication that it was anything other than he was having personal problems and was in an attempt to end his life.'

FBI spokesman Richard Kolko told CNN that Leon was a native of Turkey who changed his name from Yavuz Berke and became a Canadian citizen last year.

The plane was tracked as a 'fight safety issue' and was not believed to be a terrorist threat, North American Aerospace Defense Command spokesman Mike Kucharek said.

Leon remained in the Butler County Jail today in Poplar Bluff, Missouri.

The single-engine, four-seat Cessna was intercepted by U.S. fighter jets over Wisconsin, where it prompted the evacuation of the state capitol in Madison.

Authorities said Leon being treated for depression.

He had apparently left his girlfriend a goodbye note and his car was found at the airport in Canada with the keys still in it.

Leon led fighter pilots on a chase after he failed to respond to radio calls and other signals.

The Cessna 172 was stolen from Confederation College, but Leon was not a student there.

Kucharek said the pilot was flying erratically and did not communicate with the fighter pilots from the Wisconsin Air National Guard who intercepted the plane at the Michigan-Wisconsin border.

'Apparently, somebody jumped over the fence and just jumped into an aircraft,' Judi Maundrell, the college's vice president of academics and student services said.

'It was sitting as usual parked on the ramp. They keys are in all the aircrafts because students are using them.'

Kucharek said Leon had acknowledged seeing the F-16s but he did not obey their non-verbal commands to follow them.

He finally landed the plane on a road at Ellsinore near Poplar Bluff in far south-eastern Missouri.

Officials said the plane had enough fuel for about eight hours of flight.

'We tailed it all the way,' Major Brian Markin said. 'Once it landed our aircraft returned to base.'

In Madison, Department of Justice spokesman Bill Cosh said the state Capitol was evacuated shortly after 5 pm. as a precaution and many workers had already left for the day.

Govenor Jim Doyle was not in the building but was in Chicago for the day.

Capitol police ordered everyone out of the building and were allowed back in the building about an hour later.

source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... -down.html
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Cessna172.jpg
Flight student Adam Leon stole a Cessna 172 from a Canadian flight school and flew it into the U.S
Cessna-map.jpg
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Unread post07 Apr 2009, 21:22

Seems the the 148th FW were first intercept.

Air Force Link wrote:Guard F-16s intercept suspicious aircraft

by Staff Sgt. S. Patrick McCollum
National Guard Bureau

4/7/2009 - ARLINGTON, Va. (AFNS) -- Airmen on Air National Guard fighter aircraft from two states intercepted a suspicious aircraft as it flew into U.S. airspace April 6.

North American Aerospace Defense Command officials directed F-16 Fighting Falcons assigned to the 148th Fighter Wing from Duluth, Minn., to initially intercept the plane near Michigan's Upper Peninsula before handing off the mission to F-16s assigned to 115th Fighter Wing from Madison, Wis.

The Cessna 172 single-engine aircraft was reported as stolen from an aviation school in Thunder Bay, Ontario in Canada, and departed without Navigation Canada authority, said Mike Kucharek, a NORAD spokesman.

Pilots attempted to notify the pilot to establish communications with local Federal Aviation Administration air traffic controllers and land safely for further follow-on action, according to a news release from the Wisconsin National Guard.

The Cessna pilot acknowledged the fighters, but was unresponsive to specific nonverbal commands, according to a NORAD press release.

The pilot was flying erratically and did not communicate with fighter pilots, Mr. Kucharek said.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection aircraft intercepted the Cessna as well, but the F-16s followed the aircraft until it landed in an area 23 miles northwest of Popular Bluff, Mo., at 9:45 p.m. EDT.

The Wisconsin fighters were about to hand the mission over to aircraft from the 159th Fighter Wing of the Louisiana Air National Guard when the Cessna ran out of gas over southern Missouri. The aircraft landed on Highway 60 near Ellsinore, Mo., and was apprehended by local authorities.

Brig. Gen. Don Dunbar, the adjutant general of the Wisconsin National Guard and the homeland security adviser to the state, ordered the evacuation of the Wisconsin Capitol building in Madison as a precautionary measure, according to a press release from the state. At 5:45 p.m., the evacuation was terminated based on the aircraft's proximity to the capitol and workers were allowed to return to the building.

source: http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123143283
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skyhigh

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Unread post08 Apr 2009, 01:44

How fast was the Cessna 172 flying?

I guess 200 km/h.

If a Viper was going to match that speed, it would stall and crash.

If I were piloting the Cessna, I would have outturned them at lowest airspeed possible, knowing the Vipers would try to turn with me but stall in the process and crash. Pulling high-G turns would throw off their repeated lock-on attempts.

The F-16 Vipers obviously oulclasses the Cessna 172 in all but two flight regimes: Maneuverability and stall speed.

Splash Two Vipers (by means of them stalling, if they couldn't get a shot at me).

Or

Splash one Cessna (because the Vipers went vertical and the element lead did a gun kill from above)
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Unread post08 Apr 2009, 02:30

...and how much threat does a Cessna 172 pose to anything...

Good job guys not providing the "Suicide by Viper" moniker!

Keep 'em flyin' :thumb:
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Racer181

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Unread post08 Apr 2009, 02:34

You know you wouldn't even have to shoot at a Cessna you could probably punch flare and burn it outta the sky. lol
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rvdriver

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Unread post08 Apr 2009, 04:57

Hi guys just want to add a C-172 only does about 110kts TAs on a good day, lots of S turning for the Viper;-)
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Unread post08 Apr 2009, 05:49

skyhigh wrote:How fast was the Cessna 172 flying?

I guess 200 km/h.

If a Viper was going to match that speed, it would stall and crash.

If I were piloting the Cessna, I would have outturned them at lowest airspeed possible, knowing the Vipers would try to turn with me but stall in the process and crash. Pulling high-G turns would throw off their repeated lock-on attempts.

The F-16 Vipers obviously oulclasses the Cessna 172 in all but two flight regimes: Maneuverability and stall speed.

Splash Two Vipers (by means of them stalling, if they couldn't get a shot at me).

Or

Splash one Cessna (because the Vipers went vertical and the element lead did a gun kill from above)


If the USAF wanted your Cessna out of the air it'd be one pass from miles out and it would result in a fireball before you knew you were in trouble.

In this case obviously they could tell this guy wasn't an immediate threat and so just escorted him until he landed. Wonder if we'll bill him for the fuel?

High-G turns in a 172? :roll: Keep your head high up in the sky. ;)
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F16guy

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Unread post08 Apr 2009, 06:51

I leave for a little while and the loonies get on the boards...

Skyhigh,
If I were piloting the Cessna, I would have outturned them at lowest airspeed possible, knowing the Vipers would try to turn with me but stall in the process and crash. Pulling high-G turns would throw off their repeated lock-on attempts.

You are a border line 1D10T if you think you'd cause a Viper to stall by trying to out turn it at the slowest speed possible. No fighter pilot I know would care if you tried to turn at slow speed, go ahead, I won't try to turn with you. And the other nonsense of throwing off repeated lock on attempts with "High G" turns, in a Cessna, WTFO. Do you really think a Viper would go vertical to take a gunshot on a Cessna???

Seriously... Really....

Real life is not like your MS Flight simulator, or you flying a C-172 and imagining you could splash some Vipers cause the pilots are less capable than you.

Lets just say the professionals would watch you really hot dog it down low, fly real slow, and pull "High G" turns and......laugh. Kind of like what happened for real with the clown from Canada.
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Unread post08 Apr 2009, 07:04

Possibly the best post ever!

A prop job moving at ~100kts is essentially a stationary object for a fighter orbiting higher up. The real challenge is trying to read those tiny registration numbers.


F16guy wrote:I leave for a little while and the loonies get on the boards...

Skyhigh,
If I were piloting the Cessna, I would have outturned them at lowest airspeed possible, knowing the Vipers would try to turn with me but stall in the process and crash. Pulling high-G turns would throw off their repeated lock-on attempts.

You are a border line 1D10T if you think you'd cause a Viper to stall by trying to out turn it at the slowest speed possible. No fighter pilot I know would care if you tried to turn at slow speed, go ahead, I won't try to turn with you. And the other nonsense of throwing off repeated lock on attempts with "High G" turns, in a Cessna, WTFO. Do you really think a Viper would go vertical to take a gunshot on a Cessna???

Seriously... Really....

Real life is not like your MS Flight simulator, or you flying a C-172 and imagining you could splash some Vipers cause the pilots are less capable than you.

Lets just say the professionals would watch you really hot dog it down low, fly real slow, and pull "High G" turns and......laugh. Kind of like what happened for real with the clown from Canada.
Last edited by SHAFT99 on 09 Apr 2009, 01:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post08 Apr 2009, 19:36

WXOW wrote:F-16 Pilot talks about stolen plane chase

Posted: April 7, 2009 12:31 PM

DULUTH, MN (WDIO) - Two fighter pilots who attempted to intercept a stolen plane last night say they tried several times to communicate with the pilot, but to no avail.

Captains T.J. Rendulich and Alek Lied of the 148th Fighter Wing were called to monitor the stolen plane as it flew over Wisconsin.

Yesterday afternoon, a student pilot stole a Cessna-172 airplane from a flight school at the Thunder Bay Airport and headed south. The fighter pilots say they tried to get the student to land, but he didn't respond.

Captain Alek Lied says, "If you want to tell someone to land you go up to the aircraft you put your gear down signaling hey we want you to to land at a nearby airport. We can rock our wings and if the aircraft acknowledges our presence they can give us wing rock back. We never did get that."

Lied says at one point the student pilot waved at him.

Tuesday afternoon, Adam Dylan Leon, 31, was charged with transportation of stolen property and illegal entry in federal court in St. Louis. Prosecutors say Leon was making a suicide attempt, saying he was expecting to be shot down by the pilots.

source: http://www.wxow.com:80/Global/story.asp?S=10146888
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Racer181

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Unread post09 Apr 2009, 01:12

Afterburner kill, you just gotta thump it outta the sky, with wake turbulance from hell.

But who cares, he posed almost no threat. And the US isn't in the business of shooting down unarmed aircraft, unless they are about to do something really bad.
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