F-22 secrets revealed

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
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LaX

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Unread post25 Jun 2004, 15:08

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/05244wna.xml

"While these conversations, many of them informal, didn't touch on "even one-third of its classified capabilities," according to one pilot, they included the ability to hunt down and destroy cruise missiles well behind enemy lines, the introduction of a new missile that allows the head-on attack and destruction of stealthy enemy missiles, a tailless bomber derivative design, a planned electronic attack capability so powerful that it actually damages enemy electronics, and modifications that would allow the aircraft's electronic package to invade enemy computer networks. "
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Unread post01 Jul 2004, 08:25

Go F-22!!! I just read a great article on foxnews.com by Greta Van Susteren ( http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124002,00.html ) about the F-22. She and her cameraman got to ride in the back seats of a pair of Vipers for an air to air demo of the Raptor. I'm in the wrong line of work!!! Everything I've read from people who actually fly and or work on the Raptor tells me it's going to be great. I like the computer the maintenance troops can plug into the jet which allows them to do almost every diagnostic test in virually no time at all while eliminating reams of paper in TOs and forms. I just wish I could get me one of those newfangled aeroplanes!!! :D 8) :D
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Unread post01 Jul 2004, 15:12

Saw that show too. All the WVR stuff was nice for a camera. But the jet is completely wasted doing WVR.

Its strong point is to get off AMRAAM, not be seen. Zip around and position itself at great speed without burning much fuel, range. etc etc etc.

Wait till it gets setup with SDB ( small diameter bomb ) and JDAM 32 and JDAM 35.

Wanted to reach through the screen and jab one of the pilots. He said 2000lb JDAM. Well not internally buddy. And internal SDB / JDAM first night of the war door kick down stuff with an almost complete contempt of engagement of the double digit SAMs or any aircraft will be its true killer ability. Add to that the range/speed/fuel economy.

If any of the weirdos that say the F-22 is a waste want to debate me: Have at it. I will use operational "how to" 101, FACT. There is one ex-USAF pilot out there that runs his mouth a lot on why the F-22 isn't needed. Ignore him. He is a complete moron.
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Unread post01 Jul 2004, 16:52

elp, Unfortunately, I don't get Fox News Channel, so I'm waiting for the video tape from the parents. I just read the article, but I've seen more than a few shows on the Discovery Channel and there's quite a bit of good info over at <a href="www.f22raptor.com" rel="nofollow">www.f22raptor.com</a>. One of the guys in their forum is a maintenance troop in the Raptor test program.

I agree with you on the Raptor's strong point, but I can think of at least one time when that amazing maneuverability and acceleration can be useful in combat. If a Raptor has to get down in the weeds during the daytime, it might be vulnerable to several different types of surface to air threats such as visually targeted AAA and shoulder launched missiles. While at a recent MCAS Miramar airshow I was able to play with the Stinger missile captive flight trainer - seeker head and everything but the rocket motor. I was able to get simulated kills on an F-18, F-16, and Bret Willat's sailplane! The reason I was able to get a "kill" on a sailplane is that the new Stinger will still lock on to heat, but it will also lock on to a negative UV signature. Think about the entire sky as a UV source with any aircraft creating a shadow - that shadow is what the Stinger locks onto. So if a Raptor pilot has to get down in the weeds (as unlikely as that is - leave it to the A-10), that maneuverability and acceleration might just save the day!
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SwedgeII

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Unread post01 Jul 2004, 20:15

Hmm so if you slather the aircraft with UV inhibiting sun screen it will make it immune to stingers!!! *L*
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elp

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Unread post01 Jul 2004, 21:47

O.T.

Most of the time... the only thing Mr. MANPAD will see is the A-10, Cobra, or Apache or similars.

Today the fast movers stay up on high. Out of range of MANPAD, Small SAMS, AAA and trashfire. Modern PGMs are dropped more times than not, out of range of said threats. The few times that an F-14-18 etc. does come down to strafe, it leaves just like it shows up: fast and assumes a MANPAD shot and is usually kicking out decoys.

The F-22 if anything will seek refuge on high. I suppose there are a few situations where it will be in danger from such a threat, but the way we do business now from up high.... MANPAD, small SAM, AAA, and trashfire engaging fast movers like the F-14-18 etc. just happens less and less. For night work, which we do a lot of..... The MANPAD shooter better have NVG or he aint going to play. Might even die from an AC-130 then.

Also being able to see a fast mover on a dumb iron bomb run that starts from up high and comes down, can be a problem. During Desert Shield, some USMC F-18 types did some tests. When the they could spot an F-18 coming down from up high, the simulated release of the dumb iron had already happened. The fast movers are not going to hang around low more than they have to. Some of the other non-MANPAD small SAMS are nasty too.

The newer MANPADs like the SA-16 SA-18 Ilga are downright dangerous. Like you say it isn't just heat. My understanding too is that some of the new Chinese ones aren't nice either.

Not a fast mover but instructive-

Here is a video of Chechen rebels shooting down Mil Mi-24 Hind with Igla

( Mi-8 / 17 with a Mi-24 in trail that gets hit ) Large "Windows Video" wmv file.

http://video.kavkazcenter.com/fight_in_ ... copter.wmv
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Unread post02 Jul 2004, 20:06

I just watched a tape (er, DVD) of the FNC show. It is a bit of a propaganda broadcast, but there were a few interesting points, most of them visual. The edited it badly, with the voiceovers not matching the maneuvers. The first thing that caught my eye was a turn the Raptor was making 'into' the chase plane. The vortexes were so impressive I'd have believed the Raptor was popping smoke, but I saw no indication of that. The scene is short, but scary if you get the trick to it. During the entire 3-4 seconds of the vid the nose of the F/A-22 is locked head-on to the camera lens, indicating the pilot was tracking laterally thru the turn, not in line with it (I can't think of a better description, essentially he was turning, and yawing at different rates to keep his nose {and gun} pointed at the 'target'.)

The 'putting on the brakes' scenes were very impressive, and quite Cobra-like. The only other maneuver worthoy of note was at one time he pitches up nearly 90 degrees, rolls and pitches to a dive at a very different path than the entry. The camera man complicates following the maneuver as he had to rotate the camera onto its side to follow the Raptor dropping out of his frame.

Kevin
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elp

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Unread post03 Jul 2004, 05:19

Here is a good detail shot for the crew chiefs... ( via www.af.mil )
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LinkF16SimDude

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Unread post06 Jul 2004, 05:54

LaX wrote:http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/05244wna.xml

"While these conversations, many of them informal, didn't touch on "even one-third of its classified capabilities," according to one pilot, they included the ability to hunt down and destroy cruise missiles well behind enemy lines..."


:? And the significance of this is? Does the author mean while the missiles are still on the launcher or after launch? Cruise missile intercepts have been done since WWII when the RAF dropped several V-1s using Spits and Hurricanes. When I worked the ADF sim in Klamath Falls ('89) I clearly remember a cruise missile intercept profile taught at some point in the syllabus. Am I missing something meaningful or what?

I caught the last 15 min. or so of the Fox broadcast. I loved her assessment of the sortie: "It was like he was playing with us, like a cat with a toy mouse. Almost taunting us." I then got this mental image of John Cleese in full pilot gear giving her the rasberry in an "outrageous accent". :wink: :lol:
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Unread post06 Jul 2004, 17:50

IMO using "Fox" and "News" in the same sentence is an Oxymoron... :roll:
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TC

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Unread post09 Jul 2004, 06:25

Best things about Fox...Laurie Dhue (uber babe) The Simpsons, NASCAR, and Married With Children reruns. I could care less about the news broadcasts, but give me Homer and Al Bundy any day!! :lol:

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habu2

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Unread post09 Jul 2004, 16:12

Al Bundy??? I'll take Kelly thank you.

Married With Children was famous for having Playboy Playmates in bit parts on the show. :P
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SwedgeII

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Unread post09 Jul 2004, 19:03

Fox is THE ONLY NEWS the rest is just left wing AL jazeera propaganda!!!!
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Unread post15 Jul 2004, 08:23

I just found a great article from Code1 magazine, way back in October of 2000. All I can say is WOW!!!

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives ... f22_1.html
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elp

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Unread post18 Jul 2004, 20:22

Correction on a previous statement of mine. I predict that the most you can squeeze out of an F-22 without tankers, is to hit a target 800 miles a way. Not 1000. A very broad figure for sure. It is based on:

-The jet is designed for super-cruise.
-Weapons internal = clean config. = less drag = less burn of fuel
-Because of low drag, it can cruise out to a target just a hair under mach 1 ( unknown airframe life issues, otherwise I would have it super cruise out to the target ( more sorties per day ) )

All this is a parlor game of course. We have an endless supply of tankers so any real war plan means most of the time it is going to hit the tanker.

I do believe however you will have less crew fatique with this jet because it can get to and from the target faster = shorter mission time. ( strike missions anyway ) .

Of course because of its ability it could do some ridiculously long missions too and be tiring. ( needs an alarm clock on board zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ) in the fighter only mode. Long days like the F-15. Patrol, hit the tanker, Patrol, hit the tanker. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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