First Danish female F-16 pilot takes the sky - Line Bonde

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Bushmaster78FS

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Unread post20 Jan 2007, 07:06

ta1283 wrote:Did you know that the first female military pilot is Turkish? Sabiha Gökçen is her name.


God rest her soul... She was actually the first female military pilot within Turkey. During WWI Princess Eugenie Shakhovskaya and Princess Sophie Alexandrovna Dolgorunaya were among the first women to become military pilots in Europe and though American women pilots volunteered, none were taken seriously.
Gokcen became a military pilot in 1936-37...

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/ ... s_ww1.html
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chick

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Unread post21 Jan 2007, 08:14

Spitfire, you're an idiot. Why don't you stop blaming the highly qualified women who got the pilot slot because they deserved it over you? Tell us about your "superior qualifications." What are you doing these days? These women that you claim couldn't fly out of a brown paper bag have had successful careers with plenty of combat experience. And you? Stop blaming others for your own inadequate life. Get over it. They deserved it and you didn't.

The first reason why I believe they were more qualified than you is because they could probably spell...or at least learn how to spell check before posting something on a public website. Also, they most likely graduated from 1 college in four years vs the six year program that you were on.

Fight's on.

Purplehaze, Lt Col (R) Preszler is flying for SWA.
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Magnum

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Unread post23 Jan 2007, 02:01

Spitfire,

Let me take a few minutes to call B.S. on just about every word you wrote. First of all, show me a policy, provision, act or law that Clinton put in place stating that women MUST fill x number of combat positions. Maybe it happened, but I would be much more inclined to believe that he set in motion provisions to LET women in combat roles.

Now to tackle the issue of you being the "best" seen in years. Are you telling me that the year you applied for pilot training not a single male was awarded a pilot slot? Granted, back in the mid 90's the classes were getting smaller, however hundreds of students graduated each year and there are not than many female pilots in the military. If you were "that good" you would have been selected.

Lets talk about those "superior qualifications." I've seen them before. Actually, I've heard quite a few people talk about their superior qualifications only to wash out of pilot training or to get their 10th choice out of 10 jets on assignment night. Your superior qualifications extend to the point of being able to apply for pilot training and that's it. If you honestly think those multiple choice tests and video games have the ability to predict how you're going to perform as a fighter pilot you're smoking some pretty powerful crack.

As for being able to fly out of the brown bag, it looks like they were able to do a better job at it than you were. It doesn't matter if you're a dude, a chick, mexican, african, american or canadian, some can fly and some can't. Those that can get put into the positions of great responsibility and fly fighters. Those that can't sit on the sidelines writing about how they got screwed.

I didn't decide to write this because you pissed me off or because I got offended. What you had to say was simply not true and was grossly uninformed, that pisses me off. :D
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Spitfire-FreeBirds-VFW

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Unread post23 Jan 2007, 04:25

Check the policies implemented in the mid 90s and you will find the proof. Between the slashing of military funding and the demand placed on the military to fill the available vacancies with women there were no pilots slots for men. It was classic reverse discrimination. You don't have to believe me...I'm only sharing what I was directly told by the USAF.

And, by the way, I graduated from three colleges in six years with five degrees. It was not having just attended three colleges as your assumption would indicate.

FYI - I'm a commercial pilot.

Spelling?
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Bushmaster78FS

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Unread post24 Jan 2007, 06:59

And, by the way, I graduated from three colleges in six years with five degrees.


I am impressed, literally... How did this happen... 5 degrees...
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chick

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Unread post24 Jan 2007, 16:54

Seriously. He's a dang genius! Hmmm, maybe online degrees? I'm guessing it wasn't Harvard.

Anyway, the fact that women were being sent to combat jets in 1993 and beyond had absolutely no influence on how candidates were selected to go to pilot training. 1995 was a bad year--there were severe cutbacks in the amount of UPT slots. The Academy had about 225 which typically makes up around 60%. There were plenty of qualified applicants that didn't make it that year simply due to cutbacks. But, guess what? They tried again in 2 years when the AF increased the numbers. There are plenty of late rated pilots both male and female in the fighter community and in the heavy world. Too bad you gave up so soon. The AF doesn't want people like that. They do a decent job of weeding out the worthless.
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Destro

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Unread post24 Jan 2007, 19:47

I love it when these threads get hijacked and turned into a estrogen vs. testosterone war............jeezz, :evil: :x
WTF Over!
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Spitfire-FreeBirds-VFW

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Unread post24 Jan 2007, 19:53

As to the five degrees.....I started with Aviation Maintenance, transfered all the credits to the second college, attended the second and third colleges at the same time while studying Electronics Engineering, Avionics, Flight, and Aviation Administration (many times in excess of 24 credit hours per semester).
Last edited by Spitfire-FreeBirds-VFW on 24 Jan 2007, 20:27, edited 1 time in total.
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TC

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Unread post24 Jan 2007, 19:58

I'll give you a few more reasons why I know this is complete Bravo Sierra.

1) The military will never admit to overt discrimination of any kind. I recognize that there are still positions only open to men, such as the Special Forces, and the Infantry, however, no recruiter will tell you that "We are only taking women right now, and you have no chance as a man." That just doesn't happen.

What you might have heard is, "Fighter and Bomber Pilot/Nav slots are now open to women, so you will be competing against a broader cross-section of applicants", and then corrupted the words to suit your own situation after it didn't happen for you.

2) Several of the male drivers that I suited up when I was in ACLS were 1995 and 96 UPT grads. These guys came from all commissioning sources as well. USAFA, AFROTC, and OTS.

BTW, the Thunderbirds just named their SECOND female driver to the team. So much for the "brown paper bag" thing. :roll:
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Spitfire-FreeBirds-VFW

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Unread post24 Jan 2007, 23:54

With all due respect TC I'm going to call you on your Bravo Sierra in that the military is the number one orginization guilty of discrimination. The military is not an EOE (Equal Opportunity Employer for those of you in Rio Linda). The military routinely discriminates on multiple issues including gender, sexual preference (Don't Ask - Don't Tell right?), age, disability, etc. So explain to me how they don't discriminate openly or admit to it. That is the biggest laugh yet.
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TC

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Unread post25 Jan 2007, 02:05

Rio Linda? Actually I lived near there once. Sacramento...what a Sierra Hole!

The military does have age and physical standards for safety reasons. Obviously, they can't have people with chronic asthma or age related inabilities, in certain fields, but they will not deny anyone who is qualified due to a gender quota in a field open to both genders (again, ground combat positions do not apply here).

A couple more things...If you didn't get the answer you were looking for from the AF, then why didn't you try the Navy, Marines, or Army. Just because one branch can't help you, doesn't necessarily mean another branch will not.

If it didn't work out for you the first time, why didn't you try again? Why didn't you try for a commission in another field, and then try for a UPT slot once you were in? Again, I've known several pilots who started off as Maintenance or Intel Officers, and then got a UPT slot later. If all else failed, you could've enlisted, and then tried for a commission after one year. That's the route I'm going to be taking. I'm actually re-enlisting, and then going for a commission.

Also, if no one was helping you, you could've called your congressman. They will go to bat for someone who possesses the credentials you have.

Not wanting to start a flame thread here, I'm just curious.
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Bushmaster78FS

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Unread post25 Jan 2007, 03:28

I started with Aviation Maintenance, transfered all the credits to the second college, attended the second and third colleges at the same time while studying Electronics Engineering, Avionics, Flight, and Aviation Administration


So these are your degrees? Are these all baccalaureate degrees? Or did you just receive certifications in the above fields? Your degrees don't matter anyhow...

From what we all have been reading, I don't think you are disclosing your story in its fullness and accusing US Military of discrimination. Well, guess what, I have entered service when I was not even a US citizen, how come I was not discriminated against?

There are really smart, retired and active servicemembers on this forum, I think if you have a problem with the US military, instead of blowing, what is most likely hot air, come clean with your accusations with proof.. List your stuff... You are a commercial pilot... Where? If you are flying, and making your money, why aren't you happy?
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Bushmaster78FS

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Unread post25 Jan 2007, 03:30

disability, etc


We have pilots flying with prosthetics... Is that a good answer?
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femalepilot

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Unread post26 Jan 2007, 21:40

More pictures of Lt Line Bonde:
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171846_large.jpg
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checksixx

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Unread post26 Jan 2007, 21:59

When and if this thread is locked, please make sure not to delete these pics...I can't save them fast enough! Check
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