India and the F-35?

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

steve2267

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2548
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2016, 17:36

Unread post13 Feb 2020, 20:45

spazsinbad wrote:The ramp at Pax River angle can be adjusted IIRC. However these days data can be massaged by computer if angle is diff.


I imagine the aero / performance data can be massaged. I guess I was thinking more in terms of mechanical / dynamic effects on the gear getting smashed down by the sudden change in angle.

However, as I type this... it occurs to me the "sudden" change in vehicle path or motion may be very gradual compared to the highly dynamic effect of a carrier landing (controlled crash).
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24763
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post13 Feb 2020, 21:12

Yes the initial Harrier Ski Jump trials revealed the need to strengthen the landing gear bits IIRC for ski jumping launch? Yes the vertical landing stresses the gear but the ramp needed to be curved sideways to reduce stress on the gear IIRC?
Royal Navy Aircraft Carrier Ski Jumps – a History
12 Aug 2019 ORIGINAL from SAVEtheRoyalNavy https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/royal- ... a-history/

"...Lessons learned
The ski jump is a relatively cheap and simple addition to the carriers, being a straightforward steel construction with no moving parts. However it was discovered, once in service that apparently small differences in the build quality of the ramps of the three ships affected the life of the Sea Harrier undercarriage. The original design work assumed an absolutely smooth ramp but small ruts or imperfections in the surface were enough to cause cracking on some aircraft landing gear. This issue was expensively resolved and the lesson led to higher design tolerances being specified for the QEC ramps. Additionally, the F-35 has a wide tricycle gear which is more affected by small bumps, demanding more careful ramp design than for the Harrier’s tandem main gear. The centre section of the QEC deck is slightly cambered to help water runoff, further complicating the interface with the ramp...."

Source: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/a-short-history-of-ski-ramps/

Some good references for ski jumps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski-jump_(aviation)
AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS FROM RUNWAYS WITH INCLINED RAMPS (SKI JUMP)
May 1991 Elijah W. Turner

"ABSTRACT
The use of inclined ramps to launch aircraft from short runways is proposed as a possible solution to the runway denial problem in Europe. Past efforts to launch aircraft in this manner, including a very successful program conducted by the US Navy to launch the T-2C, F-14, and F-18 aircraft, are reviewed.

An analytical study was conducted for the launch of the F-16, F-15, A-10, A-7D and F-4E from inclined ramps. The takeoff ground roll, stabilizer trim setting, landing gear loads and flight trajectory are reported. The F-15 was selected as a candidate aircraft for a USAF flight test program to be patterned after the Navy program and additional studies were performed. Perturbations in center of gravity, thrust, and ramp exit angle were investigated.

A ramp contour was designed for launch of the F-15, F-16, A-7D and A-10 which minimized the length and height of the ramp while maintaining the landing gear loads below 90 percent of their design limit.

1.2 Ski-Jump Launch...
...This [USN] program generated an analytical effort in 1979 followed by a flight test program to launch the T2C, F-14, and F-18 aircraft from inclined ramps. A metal ramp was constructed that could be modified to give ramp exit angles of 3, 6, and 9 degrees. The ramp was 112.1 feet long and 8.58 feet high at the exit when configured for the 9 degree exit angle, measured from the horizontal. A total of 112 launches of the T-2C, 28 of the F-14, and 91 of the F/A-18 were made. The minimum ground roll for the F/A-18 was 385 feet at a gross weight of 32,800 lbs. This ramp effectively reduced the takeoff roll of the F-18 by more than 50 percent...."

Source: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a237265.pdf (0.9Mb)
Last edited by spazsinbad on 13 Feb 2020, 23:15, edited 2 times in total.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24763
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post13 Feb 2020, 21:44

Google can't tell the diff between old & new INS VIKRANT which is annoying so:

https://the-drive-2.imgix.net/https%3A% ... c1fee13bae
Attachments
https___s3_amazonaws_com_the-drive-staging_message-editor%252F1503950272717-ins_vikrant_being_undocked_at_the_cochin_shipyard_limited_in_2015.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24763
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post22 Aug 2020, 06:28

BOING! is boinging the Shornet on the SkYjump at NASpaxRubber these days-reports to follow I'm guessing-GO INDIA not!
F/A-18 Super Hornet Is Now Undergoing Ski Jump Launch Trials For The Indian Navy
19 Aug 2020 JOSEPH TREVITHICK

"The Boeing fighter jet is vying for an Indian Navy contract and that service only has aircraft carriers with ski jumps at present.

Boeing has been flying an F/A-18E/F Super Hornet off a ground-based ski jump at Naval Air Station Patuxent River in Maryland. This is part of a demonstration effort for the Indian Navy to show that the aircraft can operate from short take-off but arrested recovery configured (STOBAR) aircraft carriers, such as the INS Vikramaditya and the future INS Vikrant....

..."Boeing and the U.S. Navy are in the beginning phases of operating an F/A-18 Super Hornet from a ski jump at Naval Air Station Patuxent River to demonstrate it is STOBAR compliant for the Indian Navy," Justin Gibson, a Boeing spokesperson, told The War Zone. "Boeing completed extensive analysis and more than 150 flight simulations on F/A-18 compatibility with Indian aircraft carriers, and while our assessment has shown the Block III Super Hornet is very capable of launching off a ski jump, this is the next step in demonstrating that capability. More details will be released upon the conclusion of the test demonstration."...

...The Indian government has expressed interest in acquiring a catapult assisted takeoff but arrested recovery (CATOBAR) carrier in the past. Last year it emerged that BAE Systems had proposed a design based on the U.K. Royal Navy's Queen Elizabeth class. The HMS Queen Elizabeth and her sister ship the HMS Prince of Wales are both short-take off and vertical landing (STOVL) types with ski jumps, but no arresting system. It's not clear whether the ship that BAE pitched to the Indians is STOBAR or CATOBAR derivative. There were CATOBAR variants of the Queen Elizabeth design among the initial proposals to the Royal Navy.

What is clear is that the Indians have plans to expand their carrier fleets, which would also require additional carrier-based aircraft. Proving that the Super Hornet, which is already CATOBAR capable, is also able to fly from STOBAR carriers could give it an advantage in the competition as India would not necessarily need to acquire multiple types to operate from different types of carriers in the future. The MiG-29K, for instance, cannot fly from CATOBAR carriers, for instance.

The Super Hornet, in its latest advanced Block III configuration, which you can read more about in detail in this past War Zone piece, is also in the running for a separate Indian Air Force fighter jet mega-contract, which is looking to acquire 126 new fighters for that service. A deal with the Indian Navy could further tip the scales toward the F/A-18E/F due to the cost benefits that India could realize from logistics, infrastructure, and supply chain commonality.

Whatever happens, it will very exciting to learn more about how the Super Hornet has been faring in these ski jump tests at Patuxent River."

Source: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... ndian-navy
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

jessmo112

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 228
  • Joined: 16 Mar 2020, 02:09

Unread post04 Sep 2020, 14:16

More buzz about India and the F-35.
If India had even 50 this would pose a significant threat to China. Remember how less than 40 F-117s pulverized IRAQ

https://eurasiantimes.com/no-more-rafal ... licy-oped/
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4154
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post05 Sep 2020, 13:29

jessmo112 wrote:More buzz about India and the F-35.
If India had even 50 this would pose a significant threat to China. Remember how less than 40 F-117s pulverized IRAQ

https://eurasiantimes.com/no-more-rafal ... licy-oped/


How is this justifiable, especially given the F-35 was denied to Turkey, a NATO ally? They didn't get them due to the fact they field the S-400.

Does India not do the same?
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6893
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post07 Sep 2020, 04:12

jessmo112 wrote:More buzz about India and the F-35.
If India had even 50 this would pose a significant threat to China. Remember how less than 40 F-117s pulverized IRAQ

https://eurasiantimes.com/no-more-rafal ... licy-oped/



The F-35 is the only viable option for India but don't expect a deal in the short-term. Yet, if Trump is re-elected it could happen before his second term is over.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6893
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post07 Sep 2020, 04:14

mixelflick wrote:
jessmo112 wrote:More buzz about India and the F-35.
If India had even 50 this would pose a significant threat to China. Remember how less than 40 F-117s pulverized IRAQ

https://eurasiantimes.com/no-more-rafal ... licy-oped/


How is this justifiable, especially given the F-35 was denied to Turkey, a NATO ally? They didn't get them due to the fact they field the S-400.

Does India not do the same?


They would have to resolve the S400 issue. Yet, both sides are more than willing....
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4154
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post08 Sep 2020, 14:22

Well, I guess stranger things have happened.... like the F-15EX for USAF lol.

So it's possible, although I'd say still unlikely.
Offline

jessmo112

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 228
  • Joined: 16 Mar 2020, 02:09

Unread post09 Sep 2020, 03:19

Why selling the F-35 to countries with s-400 is a bad idea.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/mauro-g ... -bad-idea/
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6893
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post09 Sep 2020, 04:35

It's very much in the interest of both India and the US to make a deal over the F-35.
Offline

spad_s.xiii

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 20 Jun 2014, 11:38

Unread post09 Sep 2020, 23:55

jessmo112 wrote:Why selling the F-35 to countries with s-400 is a bad idea.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/mauro-g ... -bad-idea/

Interesting interview and interesting report they linked to ("Bursting the Bubble, Russian A2/AD in the Baltic Sea Region:
Capabilities, Countermeasures, and Implications"): https://www.foi.se/rest-api/report/FOI-R--4651--SE
Previous

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests