The Turkey problem

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Corsair1963

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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 02:34

notkent wrote:https://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/207073/turkey-won%E2%80%99t-buy-russian-su_35-fighters%2C-says-defense-minister.html

"Turkey Will Not Buy Russian Su-35 Fighter Jets, Says Defense Minister
(Source: TASS; published Oct. 29, 2019)
ANKARA --- Turkey’s National Defense Minister Hulusi Akar on Tuesday refuted media reports about Ankara’s plans to buy Russian Su-35 fighter jets.

"Reports that Turkey will buy Su-35 fighter jets are not true. We are partners on the F-35 project [US fifth-generation fighter jets]. We want our rights to be granted," the Haberler news portal quoted him as saying."

Good luck with getting back into the F-35 program, don't think its going to happen.


Short term the odds aren't very good. Yet, that doesn't mean Turkey will acquire the Su-35 and/or Su-57. As that would be a step to far in Turkey / US Relations.
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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 07:00

They should but the Iranian stealth fighter................it is ready to go. :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 08:49

edpop wrote:They should but the Iranian stealth fighter................it is ready to go. :roll: :roll: :roll:



You would think the pilot would die of pure "embarrassment"??? :?
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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 09:42

Embarrassment? For being a small midget?
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Unread post08 Nov 2019, 05:41

Su-35 Goes to Russian Knights, On Offer to Turkey
07 Nov 2019 Vladimir Karnozov

"...In the meantime, Ankara has acknowledged that it received a proposal concerning Su-35s. Ismail Demir, head of the Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB), told the NTV broadcaster on November 1, “There is an offer and we are evaluating it. There cannot be such a thing as ‘We’re buying tomorrow’ in such matters. The offer’s financial and strategic aspects will be examined; there cannot be an immediate decision."

At the same time, he and other officials insisted Ankara would prefer to stay with the F-35, provided that the U.S. reverses its earlier decision to eliminate Turkey from the program. “It would not be right to say that the F-35 era is closed [and] the Su-35 era is beginning,” Demir commented. [wot would be right then?]

In the past month, Daily Sabah reported that Turkish and Russian officials were discussing details of the Russian offer for 36 Su-35s. The proposal was put on the table shortly after President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan inspected a number of modern Russian combat jets on display at MAKS 2019. Soon after, Sergei Chemezov, general director at Rostec corporation, said he would be willing to sell Sukhoi jets to Turkey should the customer “express a desire” to buy them. Later, head of Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation (local acronym FSVTS) Dmitry Shugaev, mentioned “a progressive interaction in this area” between the Russians and the Turks. In September, a handful of VKS Su-35 and Su-30SM fighters took part in the six-day Teknofest Istanbul, Turkey's largest aerospace and technology event at the Atatürk Airport.

Reportedly, Ankara wants a deal to come with a work and offset package to involve local industry in aircraft manufacturing and to integrate locally designed and manufactured air-launched weapons...."

Source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... fer-turkey
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Unread post08 Nov 2019, 16:05

Am I reading this right? They still want the F-35, even after taking delivery of the S-400??

I guess they don't understand the either/or dilemma we gave them: You either halt deliveries of the S-400, or you don't get the F-35...

They made their bed, now they're going to sleep in it. And what's with the Russian Knight's now flying the SU-35? The SU-30's they were flying can perform all the same tricks (more or less). I would think that with fewer SU-35's than SU-30's flying in Russia's air force, they'd want every airframe possible to devote to front line units.
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Unread post09 Nov 2019, 08:48

The whole thing's a bunch of Turkish trolling, come April 2020 the tone of the conversation will drop a few octaves.

S-400 air defense missiles to be jointly produced by Russia and Turkey

Posted On Monday, 04 November 2019 13:29

The delivery of the second batch of the Russian S-400 missile defense systems to Turkey may be delayed beyond 2020, the planned timeline, due to talks on technology sharing and joint production, the head of the country’s Defense Industry Directorate said on Nov. 4, reported by Hürriyet Daily News. Turkey’s procurement of the first batch of S-400 system was for a finished product, but Ankara wants the second system as co-production and with transfer technology, Demir told NTV private broadcaster. “Common production concepts can play the calendar. We have some sensitivities that some productions have to be done here. Technical studies are in progress,” he stated.

https://armyrecognition.com/november_20 ... urkey.html
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Unread post11 Nov 2019, 03:10

element1loop wrote:The whole thing's a bunch of Turkish trolling, come April 2020 the tone of the conversation will drop a few octaves.

S-400 air defense missiles to be jointly produced by Russia and Turkey

Posted On Monday, 04 November 2019 13:29

The delivery of the second batch of the Russian S-400 missile defense systems to Turkey may be delayed beyond 2020, the planned timeline, due to talks on technology sharing and joint production, the head of the country’s Defense Industry Directorate said on Nov. 4, reported by Hürriyet Daily News. Turkey’s procurement of the first batch of S-400 system was for a finished product, but Ankara wants the second system as co-production and with transfer technology, Demir told NTV private broadcaster. “Common production concepts can play the calendar. We have some sensitivities that some productions have to be done here. Technical studies are in progress,” he stated.

https://armyrecognition.com/november_20 ... urkey.html



Turkey is getting the same run around and games Russia has given India in terms of these kinds of deals. This is going to cost them dearly.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post11 Nov 2019, 03:19

Question is who is really playing who??? (Putin or Erdogan)
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Unread post11 Nov 2019, 16:57

The Turks know some of the F-35's secrets, so this willingness to denouce the SU-35 is telling.

They know how head and shoulders above the SU-35 the F-35 is, and for that matter the SU-57. If those 2 aircraft held significant advantags over the F-35 (or were even at pairity), they'd have ordered them by now.

They're not, so that says something in my mind..
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milosh

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Unread post11 Nov 2019, 17:09

mixelflick wrote:The Turks know some of the F-35's secrets, so this willingness to denouce the SU-35 is telling.

They know how head and shoulders above the SU-35 the F-35 is, and for that matter the SU-57. If those 2 aircraft held significant advantags over the F-35 (or were even at pairity), they'd have ordered them by now.

They're not, so that says something in my mind..


With Turks nothing is so simple. How knows maybe they want F-35 to allow others to study it? It look like Erdogan after 15 July 2016 gave up on USA and he see enemy in US deep state.
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Unread post13 Nov 2019, 07:54

Turkey’s S-400 buy may have spoiled Gulf nations’ chances of flying the F-35
12 Nov 2019 Valerie Insinna

"WASHINGTON — Two years ago, the Dubai Airshow was abuzz with the news that the United States was preparing to open talks with the United Arab Emirates about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, signaling that U.S. officials perhaps believed the time was right for an Arabian Gulf nation to get its hands on one of the most highly anticipated and sensitive pieces of American technology.

But as this year’s Dubai Airshow kicks off, that buzz has quieted, and the status of those bilateral engagements are unclear. Experts believe that an F-35 sale is likely years away, and some say the aftermath of Turkey’s removal from the program may have made the United States too gun shy to export the jet to nations with military ties to Russia.

“The Persian Gulf countries have been on [F-35 manufacturer] Lockheed Martin’s radar screen for years, but at the moment, I don’t think that any sale proposals are imminent,” said Loren Thompson, a Lexington Institute defense analyst with strong ties to industry. “The UAE would be the most likely candidate, but especially given what has happened with Turkey on the F-35 it just doesn’t seem likely that a deal would happen soon.”...

...Pentagon acquisition head Ellen Lord during an Oct. 29 briefing restated the Defense Department’s decision to remove Turkey from the F-35 program, pointing to Ankara’s progress in standing up its S-400, which could be operational by the end of the year. As a result, the department will not deliver Turkish F-35s to Ankara, and all contracts to Turkish defense contractors will transfer to U.S. companies by March 2020....

...Some analysts believe Turkey’s removal from the F-35 program sets a precedent that any other country that buys the S-400 will be unable to order the jet.

“If you’re not going to sell F-35s to a NATO ally that’s buying Russian air defense equipment, you’re certainly not going to get permission to sell F-35s to somebody who is actually not even a formal ally if they are buying Russian air defense systems,” said Gary Schmitt, a national security analyst with the American Enterprise Institute. “It’s the circle that can’t be squared.”

The United States will likely continue to look the other way when Gulf nations buy certain technologies like tanks and artillery from countries like Russia and China, said Richard Aboulafia, an aerospace analyst with the Teal Group. However, more sophisticated air defense capabilities like the S-400 will probably be off limits to countries that want the F-35, he said....

...Grant [Rebecca Grant, a defense aerospace analyst and head of IRIS Independent Research] disagrees, saying that even if Gulf nations were to buy the S-400, the U.S. Defense Department has ways to safeguard the F-35’s most sensitive capabilities by varying its hardware and software. “My personal view is that this can be customized for a variety of different allies and partners,” she said.

Before events with Turkey took center stage, it was thought that the main barrier for F-35 exports to the Gulf would be the U.S. commitment to protect Israel’s qualitative military edge. However, analysts said Israel’s head start in obtaining the F-35 and its propensity for modifying its fighters with advanced tech will likely assuage concerns.

"There are some fairly easy ways in which an F-35 sold to an Arab country could be made less of a threat to Israel,” Thompson said, adding that Lockheed has already identified “a technical fix” impacting the stealth characteristics of the plane that would make the aircraft more visible to the Israeli military.

“But the technology security issue, that’s another issue,” he said.

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... -the-f-35/
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Unread post15 Nov 2019, 04:46

F-35 program on track to replace Turkey, say Pentagon officials
13 Nov 2019 Joe Gould

"WASHINGTON ― Since removing Turkey from the multinational F-35 program over its purchase of a Russian air defense system, the U.S. has found alternate suppliers for all but a dozen components Turkey is producing for the Lockheed Martin-made fighter jet.

As U.S. President Donald Trump met with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan at the White House on Wednesday, the Pentagon’s F-35 program executive testified in Congress that he expects Turkey will be phased out on schedule, by March 2020. Lockheed and Pratt & Whitney, he said, have “spectacular progress” finding alternate suppliers.

“We began just over a year ago, very quietly but deliberately, taking actions to find alternate sources for all of those parts,” said the program executive, Lt. Gen. Eric Fick. “We are not quite there yet, so we have, on the airframe side, 11 components we have to mitigate to be at full-rate production ... and on the engines, there’s one: integrated bladed rotors, IBR’s.”

Though the U.S. has narrowed the number of parts down from 1,000 to 12, it’s still set to receive previously-ordered parts from Turkey after the March 2020 deadline. As the Pentagon worked to stand up alternative sources, it did not dual-produce the parts, which saved money but added a wrinkle to phasing out Turkey.

Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment Ellen Lord affirmed to Rep. Donald Norcross, D-N.J., that as of Wednesday, Turkey’s exit from the program was not expected to cause any F-35 production delays, calling the Turkish suppliers, “very very good.”... [then some butthurt by EGOdan]

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... cials-say/
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Unread post15 Nov 2019, 19:53

Most Turkish-Made F-35 Parts Already Re-Sourced Among US Companies
13 Nov 2019 John A. Tirpak

"Lockheed Martin and Pratt & Whitney have largely re-assigned manufacture of the 850 F-35 fighter parts made by Turkey to themselves and a few other US-based companies, with about 20 percent to be built by overseas partners, company officials said Nov. 13....

...Matthew Bromberg, president of Pratt & Whitney Military Engines, which makes the F135 powerplant for the Lightning II, said a similar proportion of engine parts has been brought back in house at the company, with the rest of the work going to overseas partners....

...Commenting on why the Turkish companies are being continued in production into next year, Lord said it’s to ensure “we don’t waste money on [buying] partially built parts.” Asked if the continuing resolution on the defense spending bill is affecting the F-35 parts supply situation, Lord said it is having no impact relative to Turkey, but “hurts the overall program” by limiting flexibility and schedule.

At a press conference at the White House also on Nov. 13, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his country is open to buying the US Patriot air defense system “under certain circumstances,” but he did not suggest he would abandon the purchase of the Russian S-400. President Trump, at the same press conference, lauded the military trade between the two countries and Turkey’s role in NATO, and said top US and Turkish diplomats are “working on” the S-400 disagreement, but he did not characterize whether he expected a change in the situation during Erdogan’s visit to Washington...."

Source: http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pag ... anies.aspx
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Unread post26 Nov 2019, 19:50

Turkey is testing their new S-440 using US made planes.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... ns-threats


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