J-20 goes operational again

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

milosh

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1050
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
  • Location: Serbia, Belgrade

Unread post09 Oct 2019, 17:33

weasel1962 wrote:The tomcats may have benefited from the F-111 experience.


On YT you have excellent F-14 presentation done by back then Grumman vice president he was clear they learned a lot from F-111, he said if there wasn't F-111 we wouldn't be able to make F-14 as good as it is.
Offline

inst

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 01:58

Unread post16 Oct 2019, 01:48

One topic that's pissed off both Chinats and neutral observers of the J-20 on SDF recently is discussion of the J-20's inlets.

We know that the Al-31 cannot provide sufficient thrust at altitude for the Su-27 with its variable inlets. The drag estimated for about 35,000 FT to at the Mach barrier is about 20,000 lbs. To reach Mach 1.4, you'd need about 25,000 pounds. The AL-31, at best, can do something like 60.5 kN with 2 engines (13,500 pounds) at that altitude and at Mach 1.1.

Is it possible that the Al-31 / WS-10 can do so at altitude given larger inlets (greater initial airflow), longer inlet length (greater space for the diffuser to do its work), as well as bypass ducts (as on the F-22) to bleed off low-speed excess airflow?

The total inlet length, ignoring geometry, is around 8-8.5 meters on the J-20, vs about 5 meters on the F-22.

Suspected bypass ducts on the J-20:

Image

https://www.quora.com/What-are-these-op ... of-an-F-22

Known bypass ducts on the F-22:

Image
Image
Offline
User avatar

sferrin

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 5562
  • Joined: 22 Jul 2005, 03:23

Unread post16 Oct 2019, 13:19

inst wrote:Suspected bypass ducts on the J-20:

Image


Where? And suspected by who? All I'm seeing are panel edges. Bypass doors are pretty obvious.

RTX2KDN7%20(1).jpg
"There I was. . ."
Offline

inst

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 01:58

Unread post18 Oct 2019, 15:52

You can see the discolored tiles that form a band. But DSI inlets don't have bypass, right? Except for the bypass ports in front of the main inlet.
Offline
User avatar

XanderCrews

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6389
  • Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 19:42

Unread post18 Oct 2019, 18:00

milosh wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:The tomcats may have benefited from the F-111 experience.


On YT you have excellent F-14 presentation done by back then Grumman vice president he was clear they learned a lot from F-111, he said if there wasn't F-111 we wouldn't be able to make F-14 as good as it is.



Image
Choose Crews
Offline
User avatar

element1loop

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1406
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 05:35
  • Location: Australia

Unread post19 Oct 2019, 09:03

J-20 Jets Showcase Missiles

(Source: Global Times; issued Oct 18, 2019)

At an air show in Changchun this week, the Chinese Air Force displayed two J-20 fighters carrying short-range air-to-air missiles which rotated out from their side missile bays, where they are stored to maintain the aircraft's stealth. (PLA photo) China's most advanced fighter jet, J-20, once again revealed its missiles at the Chinese Air Force's "open day" event on Thursday, which also showcased the outstanding flight performances of a number of the PLA's warplanes. The open day, which runs from Thursday to Monday in Changchun, Northeast China's Jilin Province, is part of celebrations to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the founding of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force.

A pair of J-20 stealth fighter jets flew during the event's flight performance on Thursday morning. Each of them showcased two short-range combat missiles, which rotated out from their side missile bays, where they were usually stored to maintain the aircraft's stealth capability. This is only the second time the J-20 has showcased its missiles. The first was at the 2018 edition of Airshow China in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province. The aircraft did not open its main weapon bay on Thursday. A series of aerobatic maneuvers, including high-speed dives, climbs and rolls from the country's most advanced fighter jets marveled the crowd. The maneuvers were combat-oriented, as each one had a tactical meaning and were used in actual combat scenarios to gain a superior position or avoid an attack, analysts said. ...

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/artic ... siles.html


Image

Chinese PL-10E*
Image

French MICA
Image

* Any similarity is purely coincidental.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
Offline
User avatar

sferrin

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 5562
  • Joined: 22 Jul 2005, 03:23

Unread post19 Oct 2019, 17:04

inst wrote:You can see the discolored tiles that form a band.


Yeah, that doesn't make them bypass doors. They're pretty obviously just panel lines. The F-35 has stuff like that all over the upper side too. They aren't bypass ducts either. Now who says they're "suspected to be bypass ducts"? Which source.
"There I was. . ."
Offline

charlielima223

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1194
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26

Unread post19 Oct 2019, 22:03

element1loop wrote:
Chinese PL-10E*
Image

French MICA
Image

* Any similarity is purely coincidental.


I believe that form follows function but I also believe the term "copy right" and its definition doesn't translate to Mandarin and Cantonese.
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2249
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore
  • Warnings: 1

Unread post20 Oct 2019, 02:05

Again, if merely the presence of wings means they copied, then every plane is a copy. If that's the standard, because the f-35b can take off vertically would mean it's also a copy. Colonel Sanders would have copied the Macdonalds burgers because they have the same overall shape. I think clearly the 2 main items the rocket motor and seeker are clearly different, the location, shape and size of the strakes, missile would mean different aerodynamics.

What is interesting is that of all the missiles the Chinese could have "copied" e.g aim-9/python/r-73, they chose the mica design. Why? Bay size constraints?
Offline
User avatar

element1loop

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1406
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 05:35
  • Location: Australia

Unread post20 Oct 2019, 03:51

weasel1962 wrote:Again, if merely the presence of wings means they copied, then every plane is a copy. ... What is interesting is that of all the missiles the Chinese could have "copied" e.g aim-9/python/r-73, they chose the mica design. Why? Bay size constraints?


I said "similarity", not copy.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2249
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore
  • Warnings: 1

Unread post20 Oct 2019, 10:49

charlielima223 wrote:I believe that form follows function but I also believe the term "copy right" and its definition doesn't translate to Mandarin and Cantonese.


In totally irrelevant trivia, the word "right" (as in left-right) is actually pronounced as "you" in mandarin. thus copy right would be to copy you. Potentially explaining the cultural difference.
Offline
User avatar

element1loop

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1406
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 05:35
  • Location: Australia

Unread post02 Nov 2019, 10:38

Images show J-20 fighter fitted with new engines

Andreas Rupprecht, Mainz - Jane's Defence Weekly

01 November 2019

Images have emerged on Chinese online forums showing a Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG) J-20 fifth-generation multirole fighter aircraft equipped with new engines. The photographs, which emerged in late October, show a J-20 painted in yellow primer both in the air and on the ground at Chengdu-Huangtianba airfield, the location of the CAIG manufacturing facility.

The new engine, the exact designation of which has not been disclosed, appears to be a variant of the indigenous Liming WS10A Taihang engine and features serrated afterburner nozzles to enhance its stealth capability. This engine variant was first tested on J-20 prototype number ‘2021’ on 19 September 2017 and then on prototype ‘2022’ in January 2018, after which the aircraft were transferred to the China Flight Testing Establishment at Xian-Yanliang airbase.

(151 of 490 words)


http://globalmilitaryreview.blogspot.co ... r-jet.html
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2249
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore
  • Warnings: 1

Unread post06 Nov 2019, 04:07

This was taken from a Chinese forum that formed the source of the Rupprecht article.
J-20 WS-10C.png


Also summarized the article below on the WS-10 variants.
https://www.china-arms.com/2019/09/ws-1 ... -variants/

WS-10 [2005] – J-11 (prototype only)
WS-10A [2005] – J-10/J-11B (few installed)
WS-10B [2008] – J-10C
WS-10B2 – J-16 (more than 200 engines installed)
WS-10B TVC – J-10B (air show exhibit only)
WS-10H – J-15 (test only)
WS-10C – J-20
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6634
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post06 Nov 2019, 05:13

j20L.jpg
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3954
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post06 Nov 2019, 15:20

Well this should be interesting..

Who gets "stage 2" engines operational on their fighter(s) first? The Russians with the SU-57, or the Chinese with the J-20?

I'm betting on the Chinese..
PreviousNext

Return to Modern Military Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests