Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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ricnunes

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Unread post05 Sep 2019, 10:24

XanderCrews wrote:
ricnunes wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:They wasted money, time, and extensive opportunity to arrive at the same decision if the F-35 is picked anyway. Its of course its not talked about, but contracting opportunities were lost.


Sure and of course that you're right.

But what I mean is that it could have been much, much worse: Such as the (Canadian) competition still being held but something other than the F-35 being selected.



that could still happen...


I would say that's very unlikely.
Like it was previously said, if Canada was to select something other than the F-35 than it would already selected it by now.

The reality is that the only contender that has a minimal chance against the F-35 in Canada is like you correctly said, Boeing with the Super Hornet. But Boeing "blew" any chances it had with that Bombardier/CSeries/Delta issue.
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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ricnunes

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Unread post05 Sep 2019, 10:34

wolfpak wrote:It would be a real hoot if SAAB, Boeing and L-M all no-bid. Saab has to be the hungriest. Boeing and L-M could easily afford to pass on this order.


Why would LM pass the bid?? :shock:

It's all poised for LM to win in Canada and even the industry participation clause/score which was previously the main point of "discontent" regarding LM/F-35 was changed/amended to better suite this same bid (LM/F-35).
Actually, there's even a good chance that if/when LM bids that it will be the only company doing it, so and again (and with all due respect), why "on hell" wouldn't LM bid?
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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magitsu

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Unread post05 Sep 2019, 10:36

weasel1962 wrote:LM passing would be a potentially big blow by itself because that could be bundled with the termination of the F-35 industry participation agreements.

That could be too big of an embarrassment. They won't jeopardize future sales.
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ricnunes

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Unread post05 Sep 2019, 10:49

charlielima223 wrote:
lipovitand wrote:
I hope not. If it does...well F@#$, another shitty precurement. Look at our new camo :doh: ffs lol


http://strikehold.net/2019/05/01/new-ca ... ermediate/

Looks better than the UCP the US Army had and the tiger stripe amalgamation the USAF had


I admit that I was initially very skeptical about this new Canadian camo pattern but from what I see in the link above, it really looks great (and cool).
It's seems like a fine combination of the current CADPAT camo (which I find to be quite good - and the USMC as well, BTW) with Multicam (currently used by the US Army and other US services).

So this new Canadian camo looks to be very good indeed. Of course that I agree that the money spend on this new camo would be better spend (IMO) on other more pressing and needed equipment for the Armed Forces since the current CADPAT camo is again and IMO, more than good enough.
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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wolfpak

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Unread post05 Sep 2019, 16:02

Grant it that L-M no-biding is improbable but they do have justification in Canada's demands for large offsets. If I were L-M and both Saab and Boeing no-bid the contract I'd add 15% to the bid just because I could. Sometimes you need to "educate" your customer. In the private sector this happens although the cost of ill will in a situation like this would probably prevent it.
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ricnunes

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Unread post05 Sep 2019, 16:09

wolfpak wrote:Grant it that L-M no-biding is improbable but they do have justification in Canada's demands for large offsets. If I were L-M and both Saab and Boeing no-bid the contract I'd add 15% to the bid just because I could. Sometimes you need to "educate" your customer. In the private sector this happens although the cost of ill will in a situation like this would probably prevent it.


The thing is that Canada already "shrank"/reduced its demands for "large offsets".
Actually this is one of the reasons/excuses that the Eurofighter consortium gave in order to justify leaving the Canadian competition.
Offset are only 20% of the overall score in the Canadian competition. The other factors/score are 60% for capability which is not only based on air patrolling over Canada but also emphasis on coalition air-to-ground strikes abroad (which the F-35 should win hands down and by far) and 20% for cost (which the F-35 should also win).
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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armedupdate

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Unread post12 Sep 2019, 23:52

Can I see the requirements PDF?
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ricnunes

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Unread post13 Sep 2019, 21:24

The Canadian Future Fighter Capability Project - Request for Proposals (RFP) has been released on the 23rd of July of this year and below there's an official Canadian government webpage stating the requirements and associated points/score regarding the fighter competition:

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-service ... ition.html

In the link above, you can read the following:
All bidders will be subject to the same evaluation criteria, and proposals will be rigorously assessed on elements of technical merit (60%), cost (20%) and economic benefits (20%).
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post16 Sep 2019, 00:35

ricnunes wrote:

All bidders will be subject to the same evaluation criteria, and proposals will be rigorously assessed on elements of technical merit (60%), cost (20%) and economic benefits (20%).
[/quote]


Sounds very favorable for the F-35.... :wink:
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ricnunes

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Unread post16 Sep 2019, 10:47

Corsair1963 wrote:Sounds very favorable for the F-35.... :wink:


Absolutely!
Hence why the Europeans are "abandoning the ship" (Canadian fighter competition) "like rats" :wink:

And as such, I'll continue to eagerly wait for Saab for follow the other European companies and also abandon the Canadian competition.
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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pushoksti

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Unread post16 Sep 2019, 19:03

ricnunes wrote:
And as such, I'll continue to eagerly wait for Saab for follow the other European companies and also abandon the Canadian competition.


It will be a glorious day when all the Canadian SAAB nut swingers cry out in terror and suddenly silenced.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post16 Sep 2019, 20:23

pushoksti wrote:
ricnunes wrote:
And as such, I'll continue to eagerly wait for Saab for follow the other European companies and also abandon the Canadian competition.


It will be a glorious day when all the Canadian SAAB nut swingers cry out in terror and suddenly silenced.


theyre getting pretty testy as it is i can see. Downright nasty at BF4C.

Someone posted this there:

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XanderCrews

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Unread post16 Sep 2019, 20:28

Clearly defined combat missions based on those currently flown by the CF-18.
Mission profiles that demand capabilities far beyond what the CF-18 can perform should be discarded. As outlined above, the Gripen can replace the CF18 on virtually all missions.



:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Anything better than CF-18 is bad. Gripen isn't so it should win?? :|

https://prism.ucalgary.ca/bitstream/han ... sAllowed=y
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ricnunes

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Unread post16 Sep 2019, 20:29

pushoksti wrote:
ricnunes wrote:
And as such, I'll continue to eagerly wait for Saab for follow the other European companies and also abandon the Canadian competition.


It will be a glorious day when all the Canadian SAAB nut swingers cry out in terror and suddenly silenced.


Yes, it will! :mrgreen:
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post16 Sep 2019, 20:33

ricnunes wrote:
pushoksti wrote:
ricnunes wrote:
And as such, I'll continue to eagerly wait for Saab for follow the other European companies and also abandon the Canadian competition.


It will be a glorious day when all the Canadian SAAB nut swingers cry out in terror and suddenly silenced.


Yes, it will! :mrgreen:



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