Sale of 32 F-35's to Poland

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tbarlow

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Unread post11 Sep 2019, 19:51

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... -to-poland

BY BRYAN PIETSCH

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. State Department said on Wednesday it had approved a proposed sale of 32 Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jets worth $6.5 billion to Poland.

In April, the Pentagon told Congress it was considering selling the jets to the European nation, a NATO member, as well as Greece, Romania, Spain and Singapore.

The sale would boost Poland's contributions to NATO and reduce the country's dependence on Russian equipment, a State Department official said in a statement. During the Cold War, Poland, which shares borders with Russia and fellow NATO member Germany, belonged to the Soviet-led Warsaw Pact.

The approval of the sale comes days after U.S. Vice President Mike Pence visited Poland, a key ally in the region, to commemorate the 80th anniversary of the start of World War Two.

Under President Donald Trump, the United States has rolled out a "Buy American" plan that relaxed restrictions on sales and encouraged U.S. officials to take a bigger role in increasing business overseas for the American weapons industry.

However, the United States began the process in April to remove Turkey from the multinational F-35 program after Ankara said it would proceed in purchasing a Russian S-400 missile defense system that NATO officials say is not compatible with the F-35.

Congress was notified of the State Department's approval on Tuesday, a State Department official said.

(Reporting by Bryan Pietsch, Editing by Rosalba O'Brien and Jonathan Oatis)

Copyright 2019 Thomson Reuters.
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Unread post11 Sep 2019, 21:40

Poland cleared to buy F-35 fleet
11 Sep 2019 Aaron Mehta

"...The proposed order covers 32 of the conventional-takeoff-and-landing F-35A variants, with an estimated price tag of $6.5 billion... As with all DSCA notifications, quantities and dollar figures can change during negotiations....

...Poland formally sent its request for the F-35 in May with the goal of replacing its legacy MiG-29 and Su-22 fleets. Procuring the F-35 is part of a broader defense modernization effort from Warsaw, which will see the country spend $47 billion by 2026 on new equipment. Along with the fighters, the proposed package includes 33 F135 engines, electronic warfare and C4 systems, access to the fighter’s Autonomic Logistics Information System, a full mission trainer, and other support capabilities.

Lockheed Martin is the prime contractor on the plane, and Pratt & Whitney is the engine manufacturer. The deal will include some form of industrial offset, to be negotiated between the companies and Warsaw at a later date. Lockheed executives said Poland will get planes with the Block 4 package installed. Greg Ulmer, Lockheed’s vice president and general manager for the program, has expressed an interest in having Poland take part in the industrial base for the planes. “Once Polish companies are approved as our supplier partners, they could make parts not only for the Polish aircraft but also for those supplied to other countries, such as the U.S. or Japan,” Ulmer said...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... -35-fleet/
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Unread post12 Sep 2019, 03:45

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nd-460805/

Kremlin and Putin must be furious right now. I think this is Poland's symbolic gesture of a middle finger to Russia.
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Unread post28 Sep 2019, 22:43

I saw, some posts on SNS, web, forums that said "$6.5 billion for 32 aircraft is expensive". 8)
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https://www.zerohedge.com/political/con ... -price-tag
Congress Greenlights Sale Of F-35 Fleet To Poland; Warsaw Officials Seek Lower Price
by Tyler Durden Sat, 09/28/2019
Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Blaszczak celebrated in a public statement on Friday Congressional approval of the sale of 32 new F-35 fighter jets to Poland. “The US Congress has approved selling 32 new fifth-generation F-35 jets to Poland,” Blaszczak wrote on Twitter.

“This is one of the last steps prior to signing the contract, but this is not the end of our work yet. We will be conducting negotiations firmly in order to secure the best price,” the minister added.

The initial contract is worth $6.5 billion, however Poland has said it will begin negotiations to bring the price tag significantly lower, perhaps closer to what Belgium recently paid for the same number of F-35s — just over $4 billion.

The package includes 33 Pratt & Whitney F135 afterburning turbofans, as well as advanced communications, navigation, and logistics systems.

The deal, which has brought the scrutiny and condemnation of Moscow, comes amid a massive $48.5 billion Polish defense overhaul to greatly modernize the east European nation's defenses, which currently is heavily stocked with ageing Soviet-era Su-22 and MiG-29 fighters.

Last year, President Trump slammed NATO members - demanding that they increase their defense spending targets to at least the 2% of GDP they previously committed to.

During his push, Trump held up Poland as a shining example of a country which has met its 2% goal, and has complimented its conservative President Andrze Duda who has repeatedly locked horns with EU leaders over various issues - most relating to mass migration and rule of law related problems.

The now fully approved F-35 sale comes also as efforts to establish a 'Fort Trump' US military base in Poland are underway, and after Trump and Duda finalized an agreement this week to send 1000 additional American troops to the large US allied country bordering Russia.

https://www.pap.pl/en/news/news%2C51820 ... d-mod.html
US Congress approves sale of F-35 aircraft to Poland - MoD
2019-09-27 Mariusz Blaszczak. PAP/Piotr Nowak
The US Congress has approved the sale of F-35 planes to Poland, Polish Defence Minister Mariusz Blaszczak announced on Friday morning, declaring that tough price negotiations were still ahead of Poland.
"This is one of the final steps before a contract is signed, but this is not the end of our work," Blaszczak wrote on Twitter.

"We will conduct tough negotiations to reach the best possible price," he said.

Several days ago, the US State Department approved the sale of 32 Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jets for a maximum price of USD 6.5 billion to Poland. A similar price was included in the US Administration's approval of the F-35 sale to Belgium, which was finally to pay around USD 4.25 billion.

Poland asked the United States to prepare an offer in May for 32 F-35 Lightning II planes as part of Warsaw's plans to purchase a fifth-generation fighter jet.

According to Lockheed Martin, Poland could receive the first four F-35 fighter aircraft in 2024, planes for the first squadron could be handed over by 2026, and the second tranche by 2030.

Speaking to reporters later in the day, Minister Blaszczak said that now Poland will undoubtedly have F-35 fighter planes and stressed that "not every state can have such planes since their sale must be approved by the US authorities."

Blaszczak said that the purchase of F-35 aircraft "will be the largest military equipment contract in Poland's history."

"F-35 will elevate the Polish air force capacity a few levels up," he said, adding that following the purchase, the Polish air force will be among the most state of the art.(PAP)
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steve2267

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Unread post29 Sep 2019, 15:12

charlielima223 wrote:https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usa-approves-sale-of-32-f-35as-to-poland-460805/

Kremlin and Putin must be furious right now. I think this is Poland's symbolic gesture of a middle finger to Russia.


IMO, with Germany screwing around with their Tornado replacement decision(s) or lack thereof, the B-61s oughta be taken away from Germany and given to Poland. I think the Poles would be a better deterrent. That would be the ultimate middle finger to Russia.

On the other hand, that might also push Russia over the edge, I dunno.

But Poland does seem to be more serious about her air force than Germany.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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rheonomic

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Unread post29 Sep 2019, 16:33

charlielima223 wrote:Kremlin and Putin must be furious right now. I think this is Poland's symbolic gesture of a middle finger to Russia.

Anything that pisses the Russians off is good.
steve2267 wrote:IMO, with Germany screwing around with their Tornado replacement decision(s) or lack thereof, the B-61s oughta be taken away from Germany and given to Poland. I think the Poles would be a better deterrent. That would be the ultimate middle finger to Russia.

On the other hand, that might also push Russia over the edge, I dunno.

Sounds like a good idea to me. We should also base a modern Pershing-II equivalent in Poland.
steve2267 wrote:But Poland does seem to be more serious about her air force than Germany.

Poland is more serious about Germany about everything. The Germans have regressed to Ostpolitik and the Russlandverstehers seem to run the show.
Last edited by rheonomic on 29 Sep 2019, 21:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post29 Sep 2019, 19:37

Just an FYI -- I cannot claim credit for the first post quoted above. I think it was charlielima223.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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rheonomic

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Unread post29 Sep 2019, 21:08

steve2267 wrote:Just an FYI -- I cannot claim credit for the first post quoted above. I think it was charlielima223.

Whoops, fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Unread post30 Sep 2019, 13:30

"Poland is serious about modernizing its air arm, much moreso than Germany".

I'll say, given they're going from Mig-29's and SU-22's to the F-35!!!

The numbers aren't large, but it would be an error I believe to think it might end there. Even if it does, this is a major development given Poland's strategic position within Europe. From the beginning, the Poles have been shining members of NATO. Everything I've read seems to verify they've done everything asked of them, and then some. That's in stark contrast to many other NATO members (cough, Germany, cough) and others.

To my mind, Poland is the antithesis of Canada (and India). They know what they want, go after it, work hard to get it and don't screw around. If what they've done so far is any indication, they'll be right there beside us in any action vs. Russia. How much of this is due to their prior oppression from Russia, I don't know. But I suspect it has a LOT to do with it, as many Poles I've spoken to.... they've still got a lot of anger toward their former overlords.

A big win for LM, a win for America/NATO and a win for Poland.
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rheonomic

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Unread post01 Oct 2019, 00:12

mixelflick wrote:To my mind, Poland is the antithesis of Canada (and India). They know what they want, go after it, work hard to get it and don't screw around. If what they've done so far is any indication, they'll be right there beside us in any action vs. Russia. How much of this is due to their prior oppression from Russia, I don't know. But I suspect it has a LOT to do with it, as many Poles I've spoken to.... they've still got a lot of anger toward their former overlords.

For the most part the Eastern Europeans (particularly the Balts and Poles) know what's at stake.

Between the F-16s and F-35s, the Poles are going to have one of the strongest air forces in the region.
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Unread post01 Oct 2019, 15:49

Personally, I'd like to see at least a full wing (72) of Lightning's in Poland. But they have to start somewhere. And it is not a capability to take lightly.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post02 Oct 2019, 01:22

steve2267 wrote:Personally, I'd like to see at least a full wing (72) of Lightning's in Poland. But they have to start somewhere. And it is not a capability to take lightly.



The new F-35's for the Polish Air Force are planned to replace both the Su-22's and Mig-29's. So, 32 Lightning's would only be half the numbers needed. So, I would expect an additional order. As soon as the budget allows...


Which, is hardly surprising as a number of current F-35 Customers. Are likely to place additional orders as time goes. As a matter of fact some have already done so.....(i.e. Japan and Netherlands)
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Unread post02 Oct 2019, 04:08

Should be a few used M1A2's laying around that Poland may want to lease.

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