Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

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jetblast16

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Unread post20 Jul 2019, 01:34



Definitely don't show him this (Tru-dolt) :devil:
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XanderCrews

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Unread post20 Jul 2019, 16:16

ricnunes wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:Its like theyre in their own little world, and it shows. again this isn't BF4C's fault. the conditioning has paid off very nicely. like my 65 million example there. No one in the states was ever being told Super Hornets were 65 million, and certainly not year after year. Theyre good little students, they regurgitate what theyre told, and even better attack anyone else that tries to tell them otherwise. knowledge, sources, experience, reason, facts, history are meaningless to them.


I have to disagree with you regarding the above.
BF4C is an "online platform" conceived to promote the Gripen E as Canada's future fighter aircraft and at the same time being anti-F-35 (probably because they conceive it as being the biggest threat to Gripen in Canada).

So they are BIASED. As such I'm don't believe for a second that they limit themselves to regurgitate what they're told! They (BF4C) regurgitate what best fits their narrative which is being Pro-Gripen E and Anti-F-35.
As an evidence of this is what you correctly mentioned in your post - The Super Hornet doesn't cost $65 Million and now that we are at it, neither does the other aircraft (Gripen E, Rafale, Typhoon, you name it...) cost what their respective companies claims - and this is well known even within the (biased) media. Yet, BF4C continues to refuse to acknowledge this.


And where did the bias come from? If an authority figure tells someone the earth is flat they're going to be afraid of falling off the edge whether they want to be or not.

I don't know if something is being lost in translation or what. I never said they were unbiased, I said they're a reflection of biased communications repeated for years. Mix with some confirmation bias, favoritism, fanboyism, and an echo chamber and that's what you get. No one is immune to propoganda.

However, one can go onto other international boards, even more euro skewed boards. Even gripen boards and see less bias as again, they're not under the umbrella of Canadian media brain washing. Did we notice that no one outside of Canada had to hear about how super Hornets were 65 million? That was a uniquely Canadian lie. Repeated until it became "fact" in the minds of those at the highest level.
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Unread post21 Jul 2019, 20:05

The bias comes from the blog creator who happens to love the Gripen and, maybe not coincidentally, has the IQ of a cucumber. He literally thought it was Lockheed Martin propaganda that the F-35 has a 25:1 kill ratio. According to him, that would be impossible since a single F-35 can’t carry that many missiles to shoot down 25 planes in a single mission. Once I explained to him and the other tide pod eaters how kill ratios actually work, I got banned from the page. That’s the IQ level of the majority of people there.
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ricnunes

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Unread post21 Jul 2019, 23:14

kimjongnumbaun wrote:The bias comes from the blog creator who happens to love the Gripen and, maybe not coincidentally, has the IQ of a cucumber. He literally thought it was Lockheed Martin propaganda that the F-35 has a 25:1 kill ratio. According to him, that would be impossible since a single F-35 can’t carry that many missiles to shoot down 25 planes in a single mission. Once I explained to him and the other tide pod eaters how kill ratios actually work, I got banned from the page. That’s the IQ level of the majority of people there.


This, absolutely this!

If I'm not mistaken, the name of that fellow is Doug Allen.
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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ricnunes

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Unread post21 Jul 2019, 23:19

charlielima223 wrote:If you tell that SJW cuck that the F-35 has multi-gender capability and is part of some minority group, he'll be all over the F-35 like stupid is on Rep Ocasio Cortez.


Yeah, if someone tells him that F-35 accomplishes everything in every spectrum, he may believe that the F-35 belongs to the LGBTXYZQWERTY123XPTO group and it will become the instant winner! :mrgreen:
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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Unread post22 Jul 2019, 00:12

ricnunes wrote:
kimjongnumbaun wrote:The bias comes from the blog creator who happens to love the Gripen and, maybe not coincidentally, has the IQ of a cucumber. He literally thought it was Lockheed Martin propaganda that the F-35 has a 25:1 kill ratio. According to him, that would be impossible since a single F-35 can’t carry that many missiles to shoot down 25 planes in a single mission. Once I explained to him and the other tide pod eaters how kill ratios actually work, I got banned from the page. That’s the IQ level of the majority of people there.


This, absolutely this!

If I'm not mistaken, the name of that fellow is Doug Allen.


Correct. And think about this. The people following his blog, generally, know less than him.

My reaction to every post there.
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Unread post23 Jul 2019, 22:44

The NEVER ENDING story continues....
Canada’s final solicitation for its next-gen fighter is out. Who will bid for the contract?
23 Jul 2019 Valerie Insinna

"WASHINGTON — Canada on Tuesday issued a final solicitation for its much-hyped fighter competition, which will replace its fleet of aging CF-18s with 88 new jets.... Four vendors are expected to respond to the final request for proposals....

...Those companies will have two chances to submit bids, according to a news release by the Canadian government. A first “security” offer is due in fall 2019. Vendors will then be permitted to revise and resubmit their proposals in spring 2020.... [oh ffsake]

… [the canuck gubmint can be heroes - just for one day] "Our government is delivering on its promise to replace Canada's fighter jet fleet through an open and transparent competition,” said Carla Qualtrough, Canada’s procurement minister. “Today marks an important step in the process that will provide the women and men of the Royal Canadian Air Force with the aircraft they need to help ensure the safety and security of Canadians, at the right price and with the most economic benefit to Canada."

Harjit Sajjan, Canada’s minister of national defense, said it was “essential that we get the right equipment,” as the new jets will be used by the Royal Canadian Air Force for decades.

Each company’s bid will be evaluated on the basis of technical merit — which comprises 60 percent of the entrant’s score — as well as cost and economic benefits, each weighted at 20 percent....

...The Canadian government announced in May that it would take a more “flexible” approach to grading an offering’s economic benefit, with higher scores going to competitors that could guarantee workshare, the Ottawa Citizen reported.

The new criteria likely puts Lockheed at a disadvantage, but the company intends to bid. “Lockheed Martin has received the final Request for Proposal for Canada’s Future Fighter Procurement Competition and we look forward to participating in the competition,” the company said in a statement Tuesday. “The F-35 is the most capable, best value fighter with significant, long-term industrial opportunities and as the competitive process continues, we are excited to share more about the F-35’s ability to strengthen defense, enhance ally partnerships and drive economic growth in Canada.”...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/07 ... -contract/
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Unread post23 Jul 2019, 23:08

ricnunes wrote:
charlielima223 wrote:If you tell that SJW cuck that the F-35 has multi-gender capability and is part of some minority group, he'll be all over the F-35 like stupid is on Rep Ocasio Cortez.


Yeah, if someone tells him that F-35 accomplishes everything in every spectrum, he may believe that the F-35 belongs to the LGBTXYZQWERTY123XPTO group and it will become the instant winner! :mrgreen:


https://www.instagram.com/p/BzRENYLFdjE ... 79awyb5mie
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Corsair1963

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Unread post24 Jul 2019, 01:39

[quote="spazsinbad"] The NEVER ENDING story continues....



The way Trudeau wants it! :?
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Unread post24 Jul 2019, 09:28

More about the subject:

OTTAWA — Canada has formally asked four companies to submit bids to supply a new fleet of state-of-the-art fighter jets, the latest step in the country’s almost decade-long quest to upgrade its air force.

The federal department responsible for procurement said Tuesday that Saab, Airbus, Lockheed Martin and Boeing have until next spring to present initial proposals to provide 88 advanced fighters for the Royal Canadian Air Force.

The jets — part of a procurement package worth about $19 billion — are to replace the country’s aging CF-18s, which have been in service for more than 35 years.

A winning bidder will be chosen in 2022, with the first plane scheduled to arrive “as early as 2025,” the government said.

“This is the most significant investment in the Royal Canadian Air Force in more than 30 years,” said a statement by Public Services and Procurement Canada. “With it, the government will deliver the aircraft that meet Canada’s needs, while ensuring good value for Canadians.”

Canada’s efforts to buy new fighter jets have crawled along for close to a decade.

The previous Conservative government announced in 2010 it would buy 65 F-35s, which are built by Lockheed Martin, without a competition, The first one was to be delivered in 2015.

The Conservatives later backed off their plan over concerns about the price and the Defence Department’s tactics in getting government approval for the deal.

During the 2015 federal election campaign, Justin Trudeau’s Liberals vowed to launch a competition immediately to replace the CF-18s — but not to buy the F-35. The Trudeau government, which replaced the Conservatives in 2015, later said the Lockheed Martin would be allowed to compete for the contract with its F-35 after all.

The Liberals launched the current procurement in 2016 and have been working on the details ever since.

Until the new jets arrive, the Liberal government has announced plans to upgrade Canada’s CF-18s. It has also signed a contract to buy 18 second-hand jets from Australia, a deal that officials have pegged at around $500 million.

Conservative MP James Bezan, the party’s critic for defence, criticized the Liberal government for delays in replacing the fighter jets. Other countries, he said in a statement Tuesday, chose their new jets in under two years.

“It is inexcusable that Justin Trudeau spent the past four years dithering on the fighter-jet file,” Bezan said.

He added, without providing details about how this would work, that if the Conservatives win October’s federal election they will “immediately select a new fighter jet through a fair and transparent competition.”

The F-35 will be up against Airbus’s Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab’s Gripen and Boeing’s Super Hornet. French company Dassault pulled its Rafale from contention late last year.

The big-ticket purchase is expected to provide a boost to the country’s economy.

On Tuesday, the government said the investment will provide decades of support to Canada’s aerospace and defence industries.

The government points out the bidders will have to show they have plans to invest as much in economic benefits for Canada as the eventual contract is worth.

The proposals will be evaluated on technical merit (60 per cent), cost (20 per cent) and economic benefits (20 per cent), the statement said.

The suppliers have until this fall to demonstrate that they can meet requirements for security and interoperability with allied countries’ forces, and until spring 2020 to make what the government calls “initial proposals.”



Source: https://ottawacitizen.com/pmn/news-pmn/ ... 11b2bf49a7


Too me it looks like the F-35 will/should be at the advantage (and not the otherwise).

Anyway, the proposals deadline is supposed to be next Spring so this again, seems clearly a stalling tactic from JT's government to postpone the decision to the next term/government.
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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Unread post24 Jul 2019, 09:35

:roll: Is this 'winna winna chicken dinna?': "...winning bidder will be chosen in 2022, with the first plane scheduled to arrive “as early as 2025,” the government said..." AS IF AS EARLY AS - IS IT TOO SOON? I KNOW.... :roll: Beached AZ. Beached IS.

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Unread post24 Jul 2019, 10:00

I'm quite certain the analysis done in this thread exceeds anything Canada is going to do in its evaluation.

Someone should forward it to Trudeau.
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Unread post24 Jul 2019, 10:09

Trudeau is just pushing out the decision until after he leaves office. Honestly, shameful.....what about the Canadian Taxpayer and Warfigther??? :shock:
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Unread post24 Jul 2019, 10:27

mixelflick wrote:I'm quite certain the analysis done in this thread exceeds anything Canada is going to do in its evaluation.


LoL! Yeah that would most likely be correct :mrgreen:

mixelflick wrote:Someone should forward it to Trudeau.


That would be useless since in order to understand our analysis here, someone would need to have a minimum IQ requirement, something that I'm sure, Justin Trudeau doesn't have.
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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Unread post24 Jul 2019, 10:37

Corsair1963 wrote:Trudeau is just pushing out the decision until after he leaves office. Honestly, shameful.....what about the Canadian Taxpayer and Warfigther??? :shock:


Like I've been mentioning several times over here, that would unfortunately (or I would even say fortunately, instead) be the truth behind all this cluster f**k which is the Canadian fighter procurement!

Anyway, here in Portugal there's a saying which translated to English would be something like "There's a good side in bad things" or "there are bad things which are actually good" or something along those lines.
Related to the Canadian fighter procurement this "cluster f**k" may actually be a good thing since if this current government already chose a fighter aircraft then it would likely have chosen anything which wasn't the F-35! Actually that "interim Super Hornet" plan was IMO an attempt in that regard.
The fact that the Canadian fighter aircraft procurement is being postponed to the next term seems IMO to be in itself an indication that the F-35 is/will be the select aircraft as the Canadian future fighter aircraft. As someone already mentioned here (Optimist, if I'm not mistaken), if Canada was to select a fighter aircraft which wasn't or isn't the F-35 then it would likely and already have done it by now...
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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