Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post29 May 2019, 21:30

"Creating high-tech jobs"... for a few years at least. After that, so sorry.

btw, "build" likely only means to "assemble" the modules built elsewhere.

Here is a sneaky way to get around offsets too. Start a local "partnership" for the assembly. All purchase orders go through the "partnership" so it's all an offset. The Saab-side of the partnership orders all the modules from the parent company so that no profit is made by the "partnership". No profit means no income or corporate taxes for the "partnership".

In the end, the only real offset is the local labor and will be a fraction of what was promised.

Now, compare that to the way the JPO has set up the JSF program. Partner nation local businesses build the parts, at a profit, and pay taxes.. for decades. Their employees can count on very long term contracts instead of short-term, flash-in-the-pan jobs that Saab will generate.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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optimist

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Unread post29 May 2019, 23:00

If they are considering to build. Is it too soon to mention the arrow again and put up pictures?
Local jobs and the money stays in Canada
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post29 May 2019, 23:13

So you are just tossing any chance of actually being affordable or competitive on the global market?
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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optimist

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Unread post29 May 2019, 23:51

SpudmanWP wrote:So you are just tossing any chance of actually being affordable or competitive on the global market?

I'm confused here. Are you talking about the Arrow or the Gripen :mrgreen:
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post29 May 2019, 23:55

yes
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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mixelflick

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Unread post31 May 2019, 12:06

luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!

If you can’t compete on merit, capability or price, you go for the political bribe.


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada


This was a masterful stroke of genius: “Sweden has air force bases in what you call the far North,” he added. “We operate there daily. (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.” Poor F-35. LM didn't build any "Arctic DNA" into it. I guess this means all that cold weather testing/qualification in AK was for naught then?

Now I want to believe our Canadian neighbors are smarter than this. But given Trudeau's/Liberal Party's established antics, they may just be dumb enough to spring for the Gripen. Similar brain dead things have already happened (i.e. buying 80's retro grade F-18 Hornets)..

What are the odds?
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optimist

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Unread post31 May 2019, 12:17

Personally I think it was an Aussie master stroke. We actually got hard cash, $500+ million. Otherwise, they would have went the way of the F-111.
For a price, we will dig them up again for Canada. :twisted:

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sferrin

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Unread post31 May 2019, 13:11

mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!

If you can’t compete on merit, capability or price, you go for the political bribe.


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada


This was a masterful stroke of genius: “Sweden has air force bases in what you call the far North,” he added. “We operate there daily. (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.” Poor F-35. LM didn't build any "Arctic DNA" into it. I guess this means all that cold weather testing/qualification in AK was for naught then?

What are the odds?


B8jY9nsIgAE5pPz.jpg


ce2d022d162271836b7282037b6d46f2.jpg


F-35-alaska-snow.jpg
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luke_sandoz

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Unread post31 May 2019, 13:24

mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!

If you can’t compete on merit, capability or price, you go for the political bribe.

Now I want to believe our Canadian neighbors are smarter than this. But given Trudeau's/Liberal Party's established antics, they may just be dumb enough to spring for the Gripen. Similar brain dead things have already happened (i.e. buying 80's retro grade F-18 Hornets)..

What are the odds?


Selling those retro Hornets was pure Aussie genius.

Not only did they avoid the $$$Millions in disposal costs, they actually got Canada to pay for six brand new shiny F-35s for the RAAF.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post31 May 2019, 19:19

mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!

If you can’t compete on merit, capability or price, you go for the political bribe.


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada


This was a masterful stroke of genius: “Sweden has air force bases in what you call the far North,” he added. “We operate there daily. (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.” Poor F-35. LM didn't build any "Arctic DNA" into it. I guess this means all that cold weather testing/qualification in AK was for naught then?

Now I want to believe our Canadian neighbors are smarter than this. But given Trudeau's/Liberal Party's established antics, they may just be dumb enough to spring for the Gripen. Similar brain dead things have already happened (i.e. buying 80's retro grade F-18 Hornets)..

What are the odds?



That ok, JSF has actual Canadian DNA built into because they've been in the program for over 20 years.

(Was F414 built with "arctic DNA?")
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pushoksti

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Unread post31 May 2019, 20:52

mixelflick wrote: (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.” ?


The Gripen comes standard with a block heater, heated seats and stick grip and winter tires.
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ricnunes

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Unread post31 May 2019, 21:15

mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada


“Sweden has air force bases in what you call the far North,” he added. “We operate there daily. (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.”


Well, more Saab BS :doh:

So that guy from Saab completely ignores that Canada operates their CF-18s (how about the F/A-18 "Arctic DNA"??) in the forward bases in Inuvik and Iqaluit which are located more to the north compared to those Sweden bases (at least one of them is) and moreover the Canadian bases are temporary (forward locations/bases) while those Swedish bases are permanent and as such I would say that it's much harder to operate from temporary bases compared to permanent ones, no?
He also ignores that the F-35s operates from Alaska whose conditions are pretty much similar to what the Canadian operate "up north" and by looking at the images above I would say that the F-35 DNA handles Arctic very, very well.

What worries/puzzles me the most is reading the comment sections of the link above... :roll:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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optimist

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Unread post01 Jun 2019, 09:03

ricnunes wrote:
mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada


“Sweden has air force bases in what you call the far North,” he added. “We operate there daily. (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.”


Well, more Saab BS :doh:

So that guy from Saab completely ignores that Canada operates their CF-18s (how about the F/A-18 "Arctic DNA"??) in the forward bases in Inuvik and Iqaluit which are located more to the north compared to those Sweden bases (at least one of them is) and moreover the Canadian bases are temporary (forward locations/bases) while those Swedish bases are permanent and as such I would say that it's much harder to operate from temporary bases compared to permanent ones, no?
He also ignores that the F-35s operates from Alaska whose conditions are pretty much similar to what the Canadian operate "up north" and by looking at the images above I would say that the F-35 DNA handles Arctic very, very well.

What worries/puzzles me the most is reading the comment sections of the link above... :roll:

As well as the FA-18. Let's not forget the F-16, F-15 and F-22 Arctic DNA, operating out of Alaska.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post01 Jun 2019, 10:46

At 30,000 feet, the OAT is anywhere between -40 to -70 degrees C. Planes have been designed to operate at lower temperatures for decades. The engines are more efficient at those altitudes. Anything on the ground gets de iced before it flies. Saab is just trying to market to clueless fanboys.
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ricnunes

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Unread post01 Jun 2019, 13:49

optimist wrote:As well as the FA-18. Let's not forget the F-16, F-15 and F-22 Arctic DNA, operating out of Alaska.


Absolutely!

kimjongnumbaun wrote:At 30,000 feet, the OAT is anywhere between -40 to -70 degrees C. Planes have been designed to operate at lower temperatures for decades. The engines are more efficient at those altitudes. Anything on the ground gets de iced before it flies. Saab is just trying to market to clueless fanboys.


Ditto!
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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