JASDF F-35A crashed

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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Gamera

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Unread post17 Apr 2019, 14:09

https://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2019041700001&g=soc

2019/04/17:
MOD stated JMSDF allocated submarine rescue ship ASR-404 JDS Chiyoda, destroyer DD-107 JDS Ikaduchi, and SH-60K helicopters to accident area.
Their sonars had not detected any signal from F-35 FDR [flight data recorder].

MOD stated radar loss location was not crash location.

2018/12/06, USMC F/A-18 and KC-130 crashed into sea, near Kouchi Prefecture.
After two weeks, detected signal from FDR of F/A-18 or KC-130, at depth 3,000 m.

USN used TPL-25 towed pinger locator could detect signal down to 6,000 m.

2019/02/20, JASDF F-2 crashed into sea, near Yamaguchi Prefecture.
2019/04/07, recovered FDR of F-2, but from shallow depth 100 m.

Article claims government person [anonymous] claimed F-2 FDR beacon did not activate, and 1.5 month after crash, battery expired.

Accident F-35 had newest Block 3F mission system software.
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energo

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Unread post17 Apr 2019, 22:27

Gamera wrote:Accident F-35 had newest Block 3F mission system software.


Thank's for the update, Gamera.

Auto GCAS is not operational yet, if I'm not mistaking?

I'm leaning towards hypoxia:
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/12/poli ... index.html
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post17 Apr 2019, 22:49

Auto GCAS is coming in a few months.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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spazsinbad

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Unread post17 Apr 2019, 22:50

Old news about the 'non-event' hypoxia issues in the F-35. These events have been discussed elsewhere with a recent VADM Winter testifying F-35 bits in thread: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=53778&p=416216&hilit=Winter#p416216

Key phrase about F-35 at Luke AFB is "five pilots experienced hypoxia-like symptoms". A reporter interview with a non-US pilot seemed to me to indicate he had not been properly trained in aviation medicine about these issues (ignorant).

Report cited above says: "...Graff said that it's still not clear what caused the oxygen incidents, but said that the pause was confined to Luke because "no other incidents have been reported" at any other Air Force bases since May 2...."

Unfortunately the F-35 was lumped in with other miljets experiencing an 'oxygen issue'. Until wreckage recovered / accident investigated one (IF ONLY ME) can conjure a MILLION reasons why the aircraft crashed but these are useless.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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energo

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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 00:45

Of course, Spaz. But tragedy aside, some good old speculation doesn't hurt. As long as it's good speculation. :poke:
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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 07:45

On previous page 'QS' made a good point about 'speculation' (with little IF NO details). Any NAVY pilots here will have lost comrades over water, with little to no indication that something went wrong, & it remains thus for Davy Jones Locker.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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citanon

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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 09:53

spazsinbad wrote:On previous page 'QS' made a good point about 'speculation' (with little IF NO details). Any NAVY pilots here will have lost comrades over water, with little to no indication that something went wrong, & it remains thus for Davy Jones Locker.


What were the most common reasons ultimately assigned?
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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 10:15

citanon wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:On previous page 'QS' made a good point about 'speculation' (with little IF NO details). Any NAVY pilots here will have lost comrades over water, with little to no indication that something went wrong, & it remains thus for Davy Jones Locker.


What were the most common reasons ultimately assigned?

When cause is unknown it is unknown (what you don't know, you don't know - you don't know) famous CMDR Air saying. One personally known to me (however the actual accident report unknown to me until forty years later so for a long time I knew only some little parts of what transpired) the experienced pilot in a TA4G crashed into the sea without any indication/ radio call there was a problem. He may have only managed to partly clear the aircraft ejecting as it entered the water - the rear seat of a TA-4 always ejects first with the front seat half a second later IIRC. In those days (1974) aircraft remained on sea floor (water deep of that part of NSW coast). Sometimes trawlers bring up parts of an aircraft - this has happened to an A4G crash (pilot ejected OK so lots known about cause of crash with wingman an eyewitness to engine fire). Sometimes very old bits of very old aircraft recovered by trawling nets - nothing comes of it - too long ago.

I have read many APPROACH and other safety publication crash at sea stories. Aircraft lost. Next. For a long time the USN puzzled over A-4s turning violently left off the catapult without pilot ejecting, aircraft down in the sea. Then our first catapult A4G (with some excess airspeed as a precaution also he was likely at lightweight so that the aircraft could turn downwind for the first approach for the first arrest etc.) from MELBOURNE went violently left but control regained by skilled pilot using trim buttons (with excess airspeed) recovering to NAS Nowra at fast approach speed into a short field arrest. The radar module had come out into his lap during the catapult stroke pinning the control column back and to the left. Pilot cannot eject with damn thing half out of the front instrument panel wedged as it was (damn heavy). This safe recovery solved a lot of UNKNOWN USN fatal off the catapult A-4 Accidents. I've told this story in another thread....

An earlier telling: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=52644&p=371330&hilit=NwIKq35wptE#p371330
with: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=52644&p=371341&hilit=radar#p371341
RADAR 1st CATAPULT RAN FAA Skyhawk A4G 887 pp12.pdf (7.7Mb) download/file.php?id=24988

I'll leave others to contribute about other USN or other Naval Air Arm Unknown accidents (night is often the time).

A-4 Catapult Jammed Controls by Radar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwIKq35wptE

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Gamera

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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 10:50

spazsinbad wrote:When cause is unknown it is unknown (what you don't know, you don't know - you don't know) famous CMDR Air saying.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns

"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know.
And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.[1]"
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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 11:24

Hmmm 2002. CMDR AIR NAS Nowra said what he said to a group of us new midshipmen straight out of flying training in a meet & greet January 1969. He was famous for it so must have said it earlier than that date also.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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sferrin

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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 12:58

So. . .any news about the F-35 that went down?
"There I was. . ."
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Gamera

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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 13:16

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2019 ... inawat-oki
http://www.ultradeepsolutions.com/van-gogh-dsv.html

2019/04/17:
DSV Van Gogh, a civilian salvage ship of Ultra Deep Solutions, docked at Naha military port, Okinawa Prefecture.

Rimpeace, an Okinawa-based civilian organisation that monitors US military in Okinawa, claims DSV Van Gogh could recover objects from depth 3,000 m.
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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 13:52

Japan's F-35As had 7 emergency landings before crash
17 Apr 2019 Danielle Haynes

"April 17 (UPI) -- In the months before Japan's first F-35A stealth fighter jets crashed in the Pacific Ocean, the country's air force made seven emergency [what constitutes an emergency?] landings of the aircraft, Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya said....

...Speaking during a news conference Tuesday, Iwaya said the seven precautionary landings [oooh suits you sir - precautionary NOT emergency] each happened before the end of February. Of those landings, seven involved aircraft assembled in Japan and one assembled in the United States. The plane that crashed made two of the emergency [oh grow up] landings. [ https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20 ... na/006000c explains much more better below]

Iwaya said a pilot made one landing in response to a cooling system warning light and another pilot made a landing due to a navigation system problem....

...Though the Japanese coast guard and U.S. Forces Japan suspended their search for the missing pilot from the April 9 crash, the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force search was underway.

"Though U.S. search and rescue efforts have ended, we will continue to coordinate with our Japanese partners on efforts to locate and recovery the missing aircraft," U.S. Air Force Col. John Hutcheson told Stars and Stripes."

Source: https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2019/0 ... 555517312/

Japan's F-35A jets in 7 emergency landings prior to Pacific crash [EMERGENCY!? Suits You Sir - know wot I mean]
17 Apr 2019 (Mainichi Japan)

"...Of the 13 planes provided by the United States to Japan, five have been forced to make emergency landings in seven incidents. Of these, two emergency landings were due to faults recorded in the recently crashed jet. The ministry claims it confirmed the aircraft were safe to fly after each case, but a possible connection is still being investigated.

The Ministry of Defense said the emergency landings took place between June 2017 and January 2019 during flight tests and drills. Unplanned returns to base were made after the planes reported issues with systems relating to fuel, hydraulics and other parts. Excluding one case of an error by the aircraft's monitoring systems, the remaining six saw the fighters inspected and parts replaced before they were confirmed safe to fly.

Final assembly of four of the error reporting planes, including the fighter that went missing April 9, was carried out in Japan by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd. The other aircraft was built and assembled in the U.S. Earlier reports showed the crashed fighter had issues with its cooling and navigation systems twice, on June 20, 2017, and Aug. 8, 2018, respectively...."

Source: https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20 ... na/006000c
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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energo

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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 16:45

spazsinbad wrote:On previous page 'QS' made a good point about 'speculation' (with little IF NO details). Any NAVY pilots here will have lost comrades over water, with little to no indication that something went wrong, & it remains thus for Davy Jones Locker.


We could simply log off the forum and wait for the full report.
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Unread post18 Apr 2019, 19:06

You're welcome.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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