F-35 and Airshows

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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steve2267

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 16:03

marsavian wrote:Fantastic brutal display by both and F-35A wing sure looks small compared to F-22, amazing it can do virtually the same moves. At 2:53 the F-22 does a climbing ~90 degree turn in 3s, an instantaneous turn rate of around 30 degrees/sec, so it sure doesn't play when it gets angry ;).


Here is a photo that gives a quick visual comparison of the F-35 with not only the F-22, but also an F-15 and F-22.

Image

I put several compare and contrast photos in this thread: Visual comparison and contrast with Raptor, Eagle, Viper.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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steve2267

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 16:10

I am reminded of comments by Harry Hillaker about how dense the F-16 was. They deliberately kept avionics bays to a minimum to avoid "bloat" or some such. This was done to keep the weight down. If there just was not space to stick crap... the plane couldn't get heavier.

I am amazed that if you start with an F-16 airframe, and mentally morph it so that you can tuck two 2000lb Mk 84 bombs, and a pair of AIM-120's inside the airframe, oh, and add volume for 18,000 lb of gas... you really do end up with the F-35.

Perhaps a better way to describe it... is that the F-35 is really is an F-16 sized airframe. Yeah, the fuselage is "fatter"... but then I have to keep reminding myself that the F-35 carries two Mk 84 sized shapes inside along with two AIM-120s, and 9 tons of gas. I am continually amazed at what LM managed to cram into the F-35.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 16:15

steve2267 wrote:but then I have to keep reminding myself that the F-35 carries two Mk 84 sized shapes inside along with two AIM-120s, and 9 tons of gas. I am continually amazed at what LM managed to cram into the F-35.

And a targeting pod, and an ECM pod. Don't forget to remind people that the F-35A carries more fuel than the F-22.
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steve2267

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 18:09

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
steve2267 wrote:but then I have to keep reminding myself that the F-35 carries two Mk 84 sized shapes inside along with two AIM-120s, and 9 tons of gas. I am continually amazed at what LM managed to cram into the F-35.

And a targeting pod, and an ECM pod. Don't forget to remind people that the F-35A carries more fuel than the F-22.



F-35 mo gas than F-22.png


Done...
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 18:42

Sorry, couldn't help myself....
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2019-03-01 09_41_25-Untitled - Paint.png
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steve2267

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 19:19

SpudmanWP wrote:Sorry, couldn't help myself....


You're forgiven... :mrgreen:

Two things strike me: (again), how small the Lightning is, and how large the Raptor is -- bigger than the Eagle, or so it appears at first glance.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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sferrin

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 19:35

steve2267 wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:Sorry, couldn't help myself....


You're forgiven... :mrgreen:

Two things strike me: (again), how small the Lightning is, and how large the Raptor is -- bigger than the Eagle, or so it appears at first glance.


The F-22 fits in the same bounding box as the F-15, it just fills more of it. IIRC the size limits were based on the size of the average HAS.
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steve2267

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 19:44

sferrin wrote:
steve2267 wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:Sorry, couldn't help myself....


You're forgiven... :mrgreen:

Two things strike me: (again), how small the Lightning is, and how large the Raptor is -- bigger than the Eagle, or so it appears at first glance.


The F-22 fits in the same bounding box as the F-15, it just fills more of it. IIRC the size limits were based on the size of the average HAS.


I agree -- the forward sweep of the trailing edge of the Raptor's wing -- gives the Raptor a much more "filling" view. And the reason why the F-22 has 50% more wing area (840 sq ft) compared to the F-15 (608 sq ft).
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 20:33

In the same 'steviecomparo' thread the same PNG is posted but repeated here & also as a JPG then some other stuff soon.
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Viper, Eagle, Lightning, Raptor Overhead ROT36.png
Viper, Eagle, Lightning, Raptor Overhead ROT36.jpg
Viper, Eagle, Lightning, Raptor Overhead ROT36.gif
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marsavian

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 20:42

F-35 is F-16 dimensioned but with 2.5 times the fuel and 1.5 times the thrust. This plane really is as good to the same degree as its critics think it is bad ! ;)
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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 20:46

Noses more or less on the line but difficult to gauge due PIXEL size of original photo and nobody pays me to do this stuff.
AND no longer at this URL: http://www.cdi.org/pdfs/stevenson%20f-22%20brief.pdf
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Viper, Eagle, Lightning, Raptor Overhead ROT36 COMPARO.png
Viper, Eagle, Lightning, Raptor Overhead ROT36 COMPARO.gif
F-35A F-16 F-22 Compare Details.jpg
Last edited by spazsinbad on 01 Mar 2019, 20:53, edited 1 time in total.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 20:49

look at how much shorter the 5th gen is nose to tailpipe!
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steve2267

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 21:02

Sorry for de-railing this thread. I only threw the first fourship image at the top of this page to comment on marsavian's post in which he compared the F-22 and F-35. I created that other thread, and linked to it, hoping to keep this thread for airshows only. My bad. :oops:
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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marsavian

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 21:09

Well they are airshow photos so it's not widely off-topic ;). It's actually not a bad idea to get a visual size comparison between them all to see how detectable they are visually. No doubt the F-15/F-22 are in one size division and F-16/F-35 are in a smaller one. PCA will probably make F-35 look quite tiny.
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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 21:11

Raptor internal fuel on the slide is incorrect.
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